An undeniable truth is one found in ultimae principles that are dereived by inducing facts into concepts, concepts into priciples, and principles into ultimate principles. It is like unifyig elm and oak into trees, and dog and cast into animal. Then unifying trree and animal into organic as differing from inorganic, then combinin these into their essence of material in contrast to rational and spiritual knowledge. Then reasoning the interplay between these three values. This ultimate principle of three values will be a source of knowledge from which all that is induced to it may be logically deduced from it in a hierarchy of coherent truths.
An example of an undeniable truth: Inage a dynamkc see-saw with a person on easc end and one in the middle. One extreme is the radical changer, the other is the the reacionary non-changer, the middle is he condtroller who controle by moving a short distance either way. Some undeniable truths are: The see-saw cannot go up without going down, vice versa.
If all three are equal, there is no movement. As the parts change, the whole remains the same. Most, if not all knowledge is based on this balancing change between tree values, including theology, philosophy, history, politics physics, mathematics, and psychology.
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July 21st, 2008, 1:39 pm
July 22nd, 2008, 8:11 pm
jehocifer wrote:Your explanation as to how to derive ultimate truth only seems to work if you believe that universals exist, which is a split issue. Thus far, I have only found one thing that is immune to debate. This is my personal realization, and a salute to Socrates. "I know that I know nothing"... Since human knowledge seems to be based on assumptions to various degrees, this is the only thing that I can be sure of thus far.
It is not that I believe universals exist, they exist because a dialectical of universal coherent truth conclude in the universal.
If Socrates lived by "All I know is that I know nothing," and stooped there, then he would die knowing nothing. Isn't it logical for the sane mind to continue by saying truthfully, 'so now I have everything to learn."
July 27th, 2008, 3:12 pm
jehocifer wrote:Ithat is not based on a single assumption.challenge nameless to give me an undeniable truth
An undeniable universal truth is: All things have balancing or cyclical change between negative-neutral-positive values while a viable entity. So every gain has a loss, vice versa to maintain a constant entitiy of the ultimate whole. Thus, the scientific Conservation Law says all entities of matter change in their parts, but not in their whole. E=mc2 is an example. Man changes between spiritual, rational, and sensual values within his unchanging body. The solar system changes in its parts, but not in its whole, The galaxy does the same. We can extend this to the material unniverse that maintains its whole entity while changding between energy and matter.
Any ultimate principle, found by inducing facts and concepts to it, and able to deduce these same concepts and facts from the principle, will be an undeniable truth.
July 28th, 2008, 8:12 pm
jehocifer I challenge nameless to give me an undeniable truth that is not based on a single assumption.
I challenge jehocipher to give me an undeniable truth that is not related to other truths to have meaning. Also, can he find any truth that is not in the category of spiritual, rational, sensual, or emotive? Is there a definition of any truth that does not encompass anaaother truth?
I challenge jehocipher to give me an undeniable truth that is not related to other truths to have meaning. Also, can he find any truth that is not in the category of spiritual, rational, sensual, or emotive? Is there a definition of any truth that does not encompass anaaother truth?
August 5th, 2008, 9:20 pm
jehocifer wrote:Your explanation as to how to derive ultimate truth only seems to work if you believe that universals exist, which is a split issue. Thus far, I have only found one thing that is immune to debate. This is my personal realization, and a salute to Socrates. "I know that I know nothing"... Since human knowledge seems to be based on assumptions to various degrees, this is the only thing that I can be sure of thus far.
To say, "I know I know nothing" is saying "I know something, which is a contradictionn " which says you know nothing....in an endless circle of nothinnedss. How do you break out of this circle that keeps you from learnig anything?
Relative to ultimate truths, I know that not ultimate rational truth is an assumption that stands alone, it relates to other truths. It's like ultimate energy is an ultimate material truth that is related to rational change and to sensual matter.
August 5th, 2008, 9:27 pm
The Prime wrote:I'm agreeing with jehocifer on this. Truth is perceived as subjective, and what may be truth to you can be fallacious or silly to another, and vice versa.
Apparently Prime and jehocifer agree that all truth is relative, subjective, and individual. So there must be no common truth. So there is no meaning behind the word truth. So why are you debating the meaning of truth?
August 6th, 2008, 9:39 pm
Isn't energy an undeniable, universal, verifiable, rational, material truth, unless something further is found beyond it? It stood alone until matter was created from it in the Big bang.
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