Kingkool wrote:I believe that you need something to congregate people, like a common philosophy or religion, in order to start a society. However, if a country is greatly influenced by a religion, would a fear of god(s) slow progress? I believe the answer is yes. Anyone who is atleast a little religious will do things based on their beliefs. If god told Adam and Eve not to seek knowledge, should we do the same and burn books?

Xris wrote:

dparrott wrote:If religion is slavery then people are only enslaving themselves.

So if a tyrant rules then we can only blame his victims. The message of jesus was a revolutionaries dream of peace mercy and freedom but like all common rebellions, the men who seek power over others made it holy and degraded it into a religion that controlled and manipulated men.

Kingkool wrote:You could be tortured. You could look at all the statisticts you want. You can see god with your very eyes. But no matter what you tell other people, or yourself, you, nor anyone else can directly control what you believe. Even if they came out with some sort of drug or hypnosis, you still wouldn't truly believe.

eyesofastranger wrote:Terribly sorry that I don't get much chance to write here. If my slavery correlation was so very indefensible, flawed, illogical, unsound, unsupportable and untenable then why the defensive posturing?
We are a species highly connected to each other. This connection can be exploited. That exploitation is done by creating guiding concepts that feel right but are at their core flawed.
I agree using the word slavery is a bit of an exaggeration but it seems people feel after being indoctrinated during their youth that they have a choice to change their mind later. That choice is not as clear as they believe. Hence the term slavery.
At the very core is doom and gloom threats that are just that much nonsense in this universe but they have an effect. I do like Fanman very much and he's clearly a very bright individual but he has taken his connection to nature that I share at the same level as him and has through anthropomorphism created in his mind a sky being.
Once I let a sky being become master and am told I must place the master first I have become a slave. I have at the very least become willing to accept that their are masters.
My personal life is my master. Free of man made concepts I can live free to make my beloved ones my ego. Any harm that comes to me is irrelevant so long as it doesn't disturb their lives. That's the focus of a man free from slavery.

eyesofastranger wrote:Kingkool asked

That's more of a design of the religion itself then of society.

As we are mostly westerners here our culture is derived from church based Governments. Going back as far as Constantine the church ruled and has been the main designer of our current society. Separation of church and state came much too late to make much of a difference.

Belinda asked

Did you formerly believe that any religions were made , not by man, but by God?

To me god is nature. Natures complexity creates simple beauty. Nature never judges or picks favorites. It is the passive rules of the universe. Nature doesn't get jealous or make demands. These are all human emotions. Their is nothing written by man that has any semblance to a divine intelligence. The control and jealousy aspects really revel the true authors. I see the impossible feats performed in our distant past and I am open to the possibility another species has tampered with our biology and society, possibly inspiring the belief in divine intervention. That intervention would be implanted as a way of slowing our progress so as we don't become an interstellar species before we are evolved enough to become a responsible member.

Fanman wrote:I think that the core doctrine of Christianity, is to enlighten the mind, and to teach people a way of life, which allows them to be pleasing to God and fulfill their potential. Christianty advocates that we put God first and love our neighbour. Therefore, I believe that anyone who understands and practices this doctrine of Christianity, will be a benefit to society. Logically, if more people lived their lives in this manner, we would see a society where people put God first and loved their neighbours.

However, I think that the reality we see, is a fragmented practice of the Christian religion, where different values take different precedents within a particular denomination, so the core message becomes diluted. I believe that In a situation where the leader of congregation is corrupt, the core message of Christiainty is lost altogether, and replaced with the rigid dogma, of a self-serving congregation leader, which is not 'good' for society.

I believe (have faith) that Christianity is a divine doctrine, which was brought to us by Jesus. But I also believe that it was turned into a religion by men, starting with his apostles. Therefore, "The Church" is a man-made body of worship, which practices the divine doctrine of Christianity (hopefully). A church's effect on society, should be that of a community with one-common-goal, which is the betterment of that community and thus society.

I think that different religion's effect on society can be both postive and negative, depending on how the religion is practiced.

Xris wrote:Religion was and is the ability to control man through fear.It lays down laws and then like any controlling force it enforces those laws with a set of punishments. When it only has control of your moral behaviour it tells you of the consequences. Burn in hell, remain in limbo. If it has power over your social behaviour it will burn you for being a witch, a heretic, a homosexual, an adulterer. But do the faithful remember when the church had power over our body as well as our soul? O no but it then tells us how so much better they are than us. Secular justice and morals are progressive but look at where religion, note religion not christianity alone, controls the law and we still see slavery, casting out of devils from children, contraception banned and governments controlled by fundamentalist who impose their faith on others. I do not want religion to teach my children or my grandchildren. I do not like their ethics their bigoted views or their self righteous attitudes.

Xris wrote:

dparrott wrote:

Xris wrote:Religion was and is the ability to control man through fear.It lays down laws and then like any controlling force it enforces those laws with a set of punishments. When it only has control of your moral behaviour it tells you of the consequences. Burn in hell, remain in limbo. If it has power over your social behaviour it will burn you for being a witch, a heretic, a homosexual, an adulterer. But do the faithful remember when the church had power over our body as well as our soul? O no but it then tells us how so much better they are than us. Secular justice and morals are progressive but look at where religion, note religion not christianity alone, controls the law and we still see slavery, casting out of devils from children, contraception banned and governments controlled by fundamentalist who impose their faith on others. I do not want religion to teach my children or my grandchildren. I do not like their ethics their bigoted views or their self righteous attitudes.

Xris you are always talking about whats right and wrong as are a pantheist I thought you would believe in no such thing.

sorry you have lost me. I am always talking about what is right or wrong? So are pantheists. So you thought I would not believe. Sorry believe in what exactly?

Xris wrote:Invictus, slavery is carried out by the religous. It is acceptable in many Islamic cultures simply because Mohamed kept slaves. You can not place the blame of slavery on a secular belief system. Slavery was condoned by christian leaders for centuries and they even took part in it. If any one officially opposes slavery that opposition comes from secular organisations.

Xris wrote:Parro I think the world would have been better of without mother Theresa. she is hardly the best example of religous conviction. You can not select what you choose. You can not pick the good moral teachings from religion and claim that alone should be considered. Need we go over all the terrible advice religion gives us and the evil that it perpetrated.

Kingkool wrote:

dparrott wrote:Religion has had many different effects on society all the way from terrorists to civil rights. Osama Bin Landin to Martin Luther King Jr. With religion we have advanced ex. abolisionists, civilrights, inalianable rights. With religion we have declined ex. hate crimes, clinic bombings, and 911. It is not the religion itself that has brought about these good and bad things but the way in which people have interpreted it and acted in it's name. Would there be any terrorists? christian and muslim, if religion did not exist? I believe so. Would there be people like Mother Thersa if religion did not exist? I also believe there would be. Is it fair to blame the religion for good and bad people that come out of it? I believe not, because there would be good and bad people without the existence of religion.

I disagree. There would still be terrorism, but not as much. Religion is responsible for most terrorism, but this is not to say that without religion, there would be no war. People have always said that if we wern't fighting over religion, or oil, government, ect., we would just find something else to fight over. I don't think this is true. Eventually, we will run out of things to fight over. To not blame religion for the death and hardship it causes because it would have happened for some other reason is like not convicting a rapist for raping an attractive woman because someone else would have just done it anyway.

Kingkool wrote:You misinterpereted my post. I didn't say I blame religion. I just said that if there wasn't religion, then these things wouldn't have happened. I blame the people who were influenced by the religion.

Xris wrote:Parro , Mother Theresa. Just google the truth about her and you will be suprised.