Are all members and guests, all readers here, familiar with this video. It illustrates how we reap what we sow. Note who starts the process off, and who, at the end of the clip, is the last beneficiary shown. Enjoy !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HKxXR22vn0

Let me know if you believe this speaks to the question of this thread. We don't have to love our neighbors, yet if we want to reap it helps if we sow. True?

Cast your bread on the waters; it will come back to you.

The aim of Ethics and of moral philosophy ought to be to teach us to promote the happiness of others, rather than being self-centered. As a by-product of that, you very likely may find that you are happy too.

Isn't it simple, after all? There are two moral principles, universal standards, to keep in mind, and to live by: MAXIMIZE WELL-BEING and MINIMIZE SUFFERING. The latter takes priority over the former. Let's work to eliminate - or greatly reduce - poverty. It will benefit everyone, all around the planet.

Windy34 wrote:No guarantee that if you cast your bread on the waters that it will come back to you. There is some people I tried to be nice to, and I got crap back in return. Getting crap back from people seems to happen more often than not. How can a person be happy if they have to sacrifice themselves? Because by sacrificing yourself you are open to crap. Also if you are trying to maximize well being for yourself aren't you contradicting yourself? You say that ethics is not suppose to be self-centered, but if you are focused on doing ethics for well-being you are looking for what you can get back from being ethical.

First of all, Windy, I'm sorry you "got crap" from these people you were nice to. Study the principle of Rational-Emotive-Behavioral Therapy to learn how to cope with such situations when they occur. You can keep your contentment even while they are acting less-than-the-best. It is all a matter of the interpretation you put on their behavior. It is a skill to learn: how to decline their bouquets gracefully, and let the water roll off your back ...to mix a couple of metaphors.

Continue being nice to others for your own sake, more than for theirs. Decide what kind of character you want to have, what kind of person you are. For 'doing' and 'having' follows from 'being.' Know yourself ! Choose (accept) yourself ! Create yourself ! And as a result, you will likely, eventually, Give yourself (take on some responsibility; or the equivalent to being an entertainer or an artist who contributes to others enjoying themselves. You will donate your talent to the world.)

Note that I never advocated sacrificing oneself, and I don't believe in it. I did say that Ethics teaches us to promote the well-being of others as the smartest way to be "selfish" (way to enhance one's own degree of morality and thereby get the most value out of life.) Yes, there is something in it for us if we promote the happiness of others, or if we reduce the misery of others. For by adding more value to those situations, and thus to the universe, the world in which we live is to that extent a better one. We have to live on this Earth (at least for now) and doesn't it make sense that if we clean up conditions here on Earth we are optimizing the value for ourselves?!! I don't understand why it is so hard to see this.

Windy34 wrote:

.... If people act indifferent or mean I would feel crappy.

-- Updated Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:02 pm to add the following --



You mention ... I never advocated sacrificing oneself, and I don't believe in it. I did say that Ethics teaches us to promote the well-being of others as the smartest way to be "selfish" (way to enhance one's own degree of morality and thereby get the most value out of life.) Yes, there is something in it for us if we promote the happiness of others, or if we reduce the misery of others."


As for the first statement there is no guarantee that if you promote the happiness of others there is something in it for us. Sometimes yes, but based on my experience most of the times the answer is no.

As for the second statement doing and having do not always result from being. Some things happen outside of being.

And for the last statement that statement doesn't make sense because if you want to be an ethical person you would have to sacrifice yourself, and sometimes you would have to do something you don't feel or want to do to be an ethical person. You say you don't believe in sacrificing yourself, but then you contradict yourself by saying you want to promote the happiness of other people, and you want something for it.

There is no contradiction here.

If you efficiently and effectively promote the happiness of others, I predict that eventually you will, as a byproduct, feel better, when you see the results.

Also re-read what I wrote about RET (Rational-Emotive Therapy.) It is based on learnings from Stoic philosophy. Once you try it, you'll like it. Study up on it and see what it has to offer you. Focus especially on its "ABCs."

I don't want you to be a martyr. In every situation, though, in which you find yourself, ask yourself: How can I add value? We are value-generating creatures - so use your capacity for this by creating some value. Innovate something people have a need for, even if they don't yet know it, and the world will beat a path to your door ..and then how those earlier people treated you so crappily won't matter much, for you will put it in its place, and will understand how ignorant those people were; and you will feel sorry for them - for they are morally-handicapped; they are disabled in a way: brain damage, or just stupidity that will likely shorten their life, or make chaos out of it. Think about those who were awarded the Darwin Prize, for some examples.

Also, have you read over the papers to which I offer a link in my signature? You might just learn something valuable there.....

Hey, Captain

You are writing at an Ethics and Morality site, and telling folks: "When your neighbour mistreats you, mistreat him back. Mirror his actions, show him your teeth (figuratively speaking). Give him what he bargained for. Perhaps he'll understand what a débile he is."

No, people don't get to understand this way. It just gets worse.

Study up on ethics... and on human psychology ... You will learn that the best way to extinguish bad behavior is to ignore it, while rewarding all good behavior. Strengthen the good in people. This makes them morally stronger. Have more good habits in your own life than bad habits. When enough good people reach a critical mass, there is a tipping point, where they totally overcome. Organized goodness is a tremendous force !!!! It will be irresistible.

With regard to ignoring bad or undesirable or foolish behavior: if you pick up a phonecall, and you hear something you don't like, then you silently hang up, isn't it so that the phone will likely stop ringing after a while, whereas if you responded and spoke up, the party at the other end is more likely to phone again in the future?

Of course it's true.

Read some of the selections you can click on below and learn from Dr. Katz about what Ethics really is. You'll be glad you did.

Greetingss Captain Zepto

Evidently you over-looked this thread I posted which analyzed and defined the concept "justice." Check it out. There you will learn that vengeance is the very-lowest form of justice. Why not choose the highest forms?!

onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/viewtop ... amp;t=5390