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September 1st, 2011, 8:20 am
September 5th, 2011, 4:51 pm
September 6th, 2011, 6:44 am
September 6th, 2011, 3:56 pm
September 7th, 2011, 11:41 am
Belinda wrote:Paul, I enjoy the feeling my little brain gets when it boggles .
I agree with what you say about 'fate' although I call it 'determinism' and not 'fate'; and the implication of determinism for eternity. With regard to eternity and determinism, God is determinist except inasmuch as some people say that he gave us people Free Will: not an attribute that exists in my opinion.
September 8th, 2011, 6:36 am
September 9th, 2011, 11:02 am
September 10th, 2011, 5:19 am
T0rp wrote:If the large scale geometry of our universe is hyperbolic - which it seems to be based on astronomical observation, the universe has always been expanding, and has always been infinite in size. In any given part of this universe - such as the region that we can observe - the history of all particles need not be such that there is a finite number of states (photographs, as the story has previously been presented) that can be realized. As our space inexorably expands and everything tends to get farther away from everything else, as well as new phenomena "appearing" - as it were - at our perceived cosmic horizon, there is no reason to believe that nature *has* to repeat itself.
September 12th, 2011, 5:40 am
Ludwig von Drake wrote:Xris wrote:I understand your objection Belinda but I still see it as a human condition. To say we have not, you must define what is free will. I think that is an impossible task.
If we cannot define a thing, it seems useless to discuss about it, to affirm its existence and to declare that someone has got it.
Still I believe that "free will" has several meaning and we should just choose which one we are talking about.
September 12th, 2011, 6:20 am
September 12th, 2011, 11:53 am
Ludwig von Drake wrote:Xris wrote:You have a conflicting view. I never said we could choose what we want and I have never said we are not limited by our circumstance or ability.
I never said you did.
I asked you a question about it.Xris wrote:(…) You want me to argue about your description, a description that is inconceivable in reality or in theory. Free will is a human concept do you want me to invent a creature or a machine that fullfills your concept? (…)
No. I'd like to receive an answer to my question.Ludwig von Drake wrote:We can choose to do what we want, but can we choose what we want?
According to what you said, I think that you agree with the following paragrapgh:Ludwig von Drake wrote:Will cannot be free, if by "free" we mean "independent" and/or "not affected by a given condition or circumstance". Will is influenced by several factors and - considering our current knowledge - is chained to the physical complex phenomena from which it arises.
"The brain, an orchestra without conductor".
September 13th, 2011, 10:46 am
September 13th, 2011, 12:47 pm
Wooden shoe wrote:Hi Xris.
I could not have said it better.
All this wrangling about the simple customary use of a word most people use as interchangeable with choice is rather pointless.
We all know our choices are always limited.
Even to think that an imaginary or real deity has no limits is in all likelyhood not true, however its limits would be so far removed from ours that we would think it limitless.
September 14th, 2011, 5:22 am
Ludwig von Drake wrote:Xris wrote:(...) This I accept but I still maintain that this is the human concept of free will. (...)
Therefore is Hoderich (that defines differently "free will") not human?
Is our dictionary that defines "free" also as "independent" and/or "not affected by a given condition or circumstance" a non-human dictionary?
I'm not talking about determinism or quantum laws, I'm saying that: if though is a product of brain and if brain is submitted to natural laws than though is not the product of an independent mind but a natural event as the motion of the planets. Is the motion of the planets free?
September 14th, 2011, 8:54 am
Ludwig von Drake wrote:Xris wrote:(...) No the planets have a path that is beyond their ability to alter but I can sure change my path by logic and reason. (...)
Therefore, is your brain not subject to the law of nature?
If your brain is submitted to those laws and your thought come from your brain, you are free to think as a planet is free to move: your freedom is just an illusion.