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November 21st, 2011, 11:21 am
November 26th, 2011, 8:47 am
If you can not know or understand the god then as you say it is impossible to debate. If god is beyond understanding or description then there is no point in debating him or it. You can debate the evidence but not the conclusion.PaulNZ wrote:Define your "God" please.
First cause? Nature? Human consciousness? The sub-conscious? Some older looking chap with a white beard hiding just beyond that cloud? Once your perception of god is known then proof of that god's existence can be discussed. There seems to be a common assumption around these parts that whenever we mention god it is the Judeo/Christian version we are all talking about.
The less supernatural your god concept is, the more likely that any evidence attributed to that concept will be accepted as proof.
To me, god is unknowable and as such cannot be defined. I understand concepts of god can have value for individuals, and a belief in any such concept can provide that individual with a vehicle to circumnavigate aspects of their personality, which may otherwise hinder them acheiving particular goals - for example the 12 steps.
Without a definition of the concept of god being asked about, it is difficult to partake in a discussion.
November 27th, 2011, 10:01 am
November 27th, 2011, 11:31 am
November 27th, 2011, 1:28 pm
November 27th, 2011, 4:18 pm
Dramhur wrote:Ok, this is just what it boils down to, what we believe. In the absence of any serious possibility to really explain things, what remains is faith, and that often tends to be just wishful thinking. There really isn't a good reason to prefer one hypothesis over another.
November 27th, 2011, 5:35 pm
God has no image that justifies the evidence. That does not stop me treating one with more respect than another. Would you honestly enter into the same argument if it was described as a pink unicorn or if it was described with some authority and conviction?Dramhur wrote:Ok, for me God is just another name for the Big, Great, Pink Flying Unicorn. We know about God about as much as we know about the aforementioned Unicorn. If the Unicorn is only a unicorn because he chooses so but can at any given moment transform itself into anything else, how does it make it different from almighty God who can perform the same trick? Just assume the Great Pink Unicorn is also almighty (assuming the qualities of being pink and almighty are not somehow mutually exclusive - I really don't know much about these things). Or maybe you think God wouldn't stoop so low as to masquerade himself as a unicorn?
November 30th, 2011, 10:34 am
November 30th, 2011, 1:48 pm
December 7th, 2011, 3:38 pm
December 14th, 2011, 12:47 pm
December 14th, 2011, 5:26 pm
Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,
I think the answer is that God is love alive & aware. And just like love, he is malevolent and benevolent. He created both good and evil (Isaiah 45 : 7). I belive that we are God's creations, we were made in his image and likeness. Therefore if you're looking for answers as to God's nature, just look at human nature and you will find the answers that you are looking for. Everything that we are as people, he is also I say.
I believe that God created us to worship him, but he was kind enough to give us free will so that we can choose how we go about our business. The benefit to us is life itself.
December 16th, 2011, 4:40 pm
Fanman wrote:Hi Wooden shoe,
I was raised / nurtured with a belief in God. In my teenage years I forgot about him somewhat, but as I have matured, God and faith have an become important, reactivated part of my life. I have never been an atheist.
P.S. Your opinion is welcome to the discussion.
December 17th, 2011, 6:22 am
Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,
I think that it depends on what you define as true love. Since we're talking about God, let us take the example of a father punishing his son in order to keep him on the right path. The son would percieve and experience his fathers actions as malicious and spiteful, but it is in fact his father's way (love) of trying to protect his son.
It is true that God created us for his purpose, pleasure and to worship him. And he gave us free will so that we may choose what we want to do and how we go about our lives. God wants to be worshiped and some people like me enjoy worshipping him. God is not a man, he is the supreme being who created the universe, surely by this status alone he deserves our worship; there is nothing strange about that in my opinion.
I have not adopted God to secure or explain my experiences. I believe in God, because I want to dwell with him heaven. Its a pity that you lost your faith or that your faith was corrupted by over application of scientific logic. I wonder Xris, in fact I question. What is it you now have faith in, and why?
December 17th, 2011, 7:43 am
Fanman. So god did not create all those nasty little germs that kill our children? Who created them then? What is the purpose of free will if we are not privileged to understanding why god allows suffering? Can you not understand the illogical reasoning behind faith? Do these questions never give you any doubts? From an atheist perspective you appear to be making excuses rather than confronting issues that should be thought about.Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,
Fair enough, you are entitled to your beliefs. Although I would say, that not everyone is suffering. People are responsible for the world's problems, not God. We have free will. Jesus job is to separate the wheat from the chaff.