Fanman wrote:I think that to believe that we humans do not have free-will is a pessimistic approach to the subject, based upon negative inferences of being imprisoned by circumstances which can effect freedom of choice. From my perspective, I have free-will to decide what course my life will take. Of course my decisions can be influenced by circumstances, but I still have free-will to choose what type of person I am going to be, to make moral choices, to choose what I am going to eat, whether I exercise or not, if I will study a subject a University, the list choices that I have free-will to make are too many to describe here.

I think that we humans having free-will, allows us to shape our person and our lives.

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

Xris wrote:

Fanman wrote:I think that to believe that we humans do not have free-will is a pessimistic approach to the subject, based upon negative inferences of being imprisoned by circumstances which can effect freedom of choice. From my perspective, I have free-will to decide what course my life will take. Of course my decisions can be influenced by circumstances, but I still have free-will to choose what type of person I am going to be, to make moral choices, to choose what I am going to eat, whether I exercise or not, if I will study a subject a University, the list choices that I have free-will to make are too many to describe here.

I think that we humans having free-will, allows us to shape our person and our lives.

So what can destroy our ability to exert our free will? Brain damage? A terrible childhood with no moral teaching? Witness to the killing of our family? Left with nothing to eat but human flesh? Do you think if men acted because of their experiences and acted immorally they would be exerting their free will? You appear to telling me that free will is the ability to do good because you have had good experiences and a moral education. A wolf has as much free will as you or I with these examples. So what is so special about mans free will?

Did I say in my post that there was anything 'special' about a man's free-will? No I didn't. You asserted it and are questioning me as if I said it. Why don't you answer your own question that you asserted? So Xris, what is so special about man's free-will?

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

Again, you are asserting a premise as if it was my disposition or a premise that I suggested. Did I suggest that free-will is perfect or imperfect? No you did. I asserted that we have free-will and plenty of choices to make. Which is true in my opinion.

Fanman wrote:Do you think that human beings free-will was a perfect gift from your god nature? Or is free-will a result of evolution? Furthermore, if your god nature is not sentient, how do you explain it's striving for perfection?

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Fanman wrote:

Xris wrote:

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions.

Fanman this question is not rhetoric. It requires an answer, it is not a statement.It must be difficult but you do need to answer it.

I didn't say that the question was "rhetoric."I quite clearlyy said that it was r-h-e-t-o-r-i-c-a-l. Meaning, that the answer is obvious. Therefore, I repeat, that I am not in the habit of answering rhetorical questions. Furthermore, this is not a court room, I don't "need" to answer anything. I will answer what I choose to. You are over-stepping boundaries.

Fanman wrote:Ok, if you want to be cute, I can be cute too. You know that I am a theist who believes in the God of Christianity. You were also once a believer in the God of Christianity. It is common knowledge that the God of Christianity is described as being "perfect." Therefore, everything that he created must be perfect likewise. He created free-will and therefore free-will must be... See, the answer is rhetorical.

If you cannot see that the question you're asking is rhetorical, then you must be intellectually blind, or I must be very intellectually observant .

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

Xris wrote:Fanman it is you that is attempting to play the lawyer to avoid replying to a very crucial question.

In the interest of harmony lets start again. You have admitted that free will which you tell me is perfect is also a gift from god. So let me ask you, how do you choose what actions you take considering you have perfect free will?

I think that we make choices based upon what we hope will be the best possible outcome.

Fanman wrote:

Xris wrote:

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

Xris wrote:Fanman it is you that is attempting to play the lawyer to avoid replying to a very crucial question.

In the interest of harmony lets start again. You have admitted that free will which you tell me is perfect is also a gift from god. So let me ask you, how do you choose what actions you take considering you have perfect free will?

I think that we make choices based upon what we hope will be the best possible outcome.

There has to be a preconceived views or beliefs to make that choice. So what are they?

I think that our pre-conceived views and beliefs will definately effect the choices that we make. As such, they have a bearing on our will - in that our will (what we want to do) is effected by our pre-conveived views and beliefs. However free-will, I feel, simply means that we have the perfect capability of making choices, as opposed to not having free-will and not being able to make our own choices.

Essentially, we humans are not robotic automatons which fuction only by being programmed, we are sentient beings with the ability to make all-kinds of choices.

RabbitMatrix wrote:

Misty wrote:
...In a society like the United States you do hove the 'CHOICE' to decline or accept a request that is made human to human, guilt or non guilt motivated. Throughout history of the known world and currently many humans don't have human to human
choices. If each human was born with 'true free will' no human being would have power to decide another human beings
destination.

As in democracy so as with life. Free-will constitutes the power of all to decide for themselves. We can't always choose the consequence, but we can choose nonetheless. 'Do not go silently into that dark night' ,we always have a choice in 'how' we will respond to any given circumstance, even if its our last act in doing so. That by definition is true-pro-activity. Pro-activity is the best kind of free-will we can offer the world.

Fanman wrote:Hi Xris,

Xris wrote:

As you can se by the debate Fanman. Perfect free will is not possible so why is it relevant to the concept of god? It's similar to the question, why should god create us imperfect and then tell us we are not perfect?

I think that perfect free-will, is the ability to make conscious choices. I don't agree that free-will is imperfect. Nor do I believe that God created us as imperfect. He did however grant us the freedom to be imperfect.