Hello all.

This whole idea of vitamin C showing anything regarding evolution and ID seems so far fetched, almost like someone grasping for straws.
Early mankind had no idea of what was contained in what they ate, they had found out through trial and error what was safe to eat, they did not have the luxury of the supermarket so whatever was available is what they ate.
The food high in vitamin C is also often the easiest to obtain in the wild, especially in the warmer climates.
The simplest explanation is most often the right one, and when the evidence against ID is so overwhelming it is hard for me to understand some still trying to shoehorn it into life.
I have absolutely no idea whether there is a higher intelligence or not, but if there is one, the record of nature argues very strongly against any involvement by anything intelligent, even remotely being involved.

Regards, John.

Hello Groktruth, you wrote:
And, since you brought up simple explanations, what is yours for the dramatic difference between the reproductive fitness value for ID believers and evolution believers? Between the Amish, say, and professional scientists?

Ever hear of the biblical command to be fruitful and multiply? Now it seems ridiculous to think that this command still applies. Having a lot of offspring usually has little to do with ability, just a case of choice.

You wrote:
Did you mean to give the impression that you estimate the truth value of your opinion above that from the practise of Hypothetico-deductive science?

I will value common sense anytime over any misapplication of a pseudo science.

Regards, John.

Being one who would love to find a higher intelligence out there, anywhere, I can not see all that much of HIGHER in Groktruths last post.
It shows a designer, who, on a regular basis goes "oops, that did not pan out the way I intended, back to the drawing board"

The overall picture forming in my mind is that of movies we often saw in the past, one that has a ship sinking, and when all that can be done, has been done, all gather together and pray. Of course the ship still sinks.
Having given up on the literality of the creation story on the grounds that it is indefensible, have gone to plan B and are now busy trying to fit any story to the existing facts, but this does not fit very well with how they have described that designer in the past.
All this says to me that a level of desperation has crept in, a realisation that they are fighting a losing battle.

Regards, John.

Groktruth wrote:
Of course, with an intelligent agent on hand, if ID is true, then ID believers will be more fit, as observed. And, they will be better able to use the adaptive history of both theories to make better choices about vitamin C.

Are you saying ID believers are more fit because they have more offspring?
So it is just a coincidence that they also do not believe in birth-control?
I know that some still exist who believe that we still have to obey the command to be fruitful and multiply, without having developed the brainpower to realize that it has already been grossly overdone.
If this is supposed to speak well of ID, it is now on life support.
And those who think that they have honestly used a scientific method, then I was a scientist when fixing someones car.

Regards, John.