What exactly is Free Will??

Dictionary - free will - the power of independent action and choice

I have never understood the idea that 'individuals' truly have free will. We are born without our permission, carried by the
current of life of which most is out of my control, die without my permission at a time I do not get to choose. I sometimes
choose things in my life but they are all choices governed by other limitations and circumstances also not my choice. So
free will in my opinion is a myth fostered by whatever controls humans, and includes humans controlling other humans.

What say you?

-- Updated Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:50 am to add the following --

I do not know why my sentences get broken up - not my intention

The words 'free will' are not in the bible but choose is used many times.

Wouldn't real free will be free of any consequences? As a child I could choose between 2 outfits on any given day. I did not
have free will to choose other than the choice given me. (I had other clothes) How did predetermined choice become
free will? If a parent says to a child - you can share your toy or not share but if you choose not to share you will go to your
room away from me and out of my sight. I just don't see free will in choice that has consequence.

Hello Love of Wisdom,

Your story is flawed -continue - humans would say I want to be God. I do not think your story is relevant to discernment of free will as applies to humans. All animals of prey do not end up as dinner but live the total time their species dictates.
Without an animal story what do you think free will is and does it exist?

Again - when did predetermined choice become free will? What if the choices offered are not to your liking and do not
include what you want to do? How is that free will?
Wouldn't true 'free will' be free of all influence? Wouldn't each person be completely equipped with ALL knowledge in order
to have free will?? Humans do not have true free will. Choice is not free will.
Does God have free will??

CHOICE is NOT free will. If humans could choose from the vantage point of all knowledge then free will would apply. However, choosing from predetermined limited choice is NOT free will. Free will is an impossibility for humans. Humans are constrained by their own humanity, their non choice of birth and death. However, they are by their creator endowed
with choice of predetermined consequences. God IS free will as he is not constrained by anything. His gift to humanity
is to choose his gift of love. Humans spend their whole lives trying to understand live and let live.

-- Updated Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:07 am to add the following --

Fanman,
When God created he would say 'it is good', he did not say perfect.

-- Updated Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:18 am to add the following --

There are absolutes. Can one free will oneself to not die? Death is an absolute. Life is full of absolutes.

Rabbitmatrix said Hi Misty,

Thanks for your honesty, I believe free-will to mean the capacity to actively say 'no' to requests that would otherwise guilt you into saying 'yes'.


In a society like the United States you do hove the 'CHOICE' to decline or accept a request that is made human to human, guilt or non guilt motivated. Throughout history of the known world and currently many humans don't have human to human
choices. If each human was born with 'true free will' no human being would have power to decide another human beings
destination.

Fanman,

The only perfect free will is God. His PERFECT WILL for mankind is to empty oneself of SELF and trust him.
I found the following article helpful to me in understanding God's will: www.tentmaker.org/biblematters/bible-index.htm
click on #3 about perfect

How do I know mankind does not have free will? Because God loves us and it is the faith of Jesus, his perfect free will -
that restores us to God. The bible says all mankind WILL confess his name. That is not free will - that is a promise!

edelker,

The Genesis verses you speak of do not use the words free will. 'Free will' is not in the bible. Eve used choice knowing
there is consequence. Free will does not have consequence.

Not agreed. Mankind, whether religious or secular, are not free will agents. Free will is not constrained or does it have
consequences. The bible does not speak of free will. It speaks of choice within constraints. All mankind live within
constraints. Free will has no constraints nor consequence.

-- Updated Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:59 pm to add the following --

sorry ----- 'nor' does it have consequences.

Perfection does not beget imperfection - imperfection does not beget perfection.

God did not say man was created perfect, he said after creating man that all that he created was very good. Big difference.

The bible says God created mankind and all creation for HIS pleasure. It is HIS creation so HE can do what he wants
with it. Mankind has choice but not free will.
Genesis 1:28 Then God said, Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; etc.
Genesis 1:22 Then God said, Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. etc.
Sounds like God had company before he created man.

-- Updated Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:22 pm to add the following --

How is being 'deceived' a conscious choice??

-- Updated Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:34 pm to add the following --

should be 3:22 not 1:22 sorry

Faith is trust. Mankind's life on earth is based on trust. We trust the sun will give it's light to warm us and grow our
food. We trust when we go to work we will have a job, on and on. Mankind is dependent on and driven by trust/faith.
So, why not trust/faith in God? It is natural for mankind to have faith/trust.

-- Updated Tue Mar 13, 2012 6:54 am to add the following --

p.s. In the bible creation story there is no record of God creating religion. I believe religion is man made and God's purpose manipulated to control each other. God gives man life and love and wants him to learn from it. For love to be recognized by man, love's opposite which is evil (non love) is the contrast.

-- Updated Tue Mar 13, 2012 7:39 am to add the following --

In this context mankind has choices to make but does not have free will. If mankind had free will each person would
have the same opportunity to exercise free will. Who would die if given free will?

Xris,

You banter well. If you had 'control' over mankind, what would you do to make life fair and where do you say mankind
comes from and what is his destiny? I am not on this forum to win but to share and learn. It is OK with me what others
believe as long as they live and let live. I could be mistaken but you seem hostile to where others find themselves in life.
The bible is literature to be pondered, and all have a right to try to make sense of it.

Xris,

My last post was to reveal that the bible does indicate more than one God. Of course I 'admit' that!! I think it is wrong
that anyone would suggest to burn any book. It is my right to be able to read and believe if I want to, the bible or any
other literature. Remember live and let live. Book burning would set mankind back.
Please answer my questions from last post.