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Return to: Dawkins' Ultimate 747 Gambit

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Re: Dawkins' Ultimate 747 Gambit

November 9th, 2011, 11:30 pm

I guess if we were to speak statistics one could say that after numerous attempts to provide empirical evidence of god’s existence none has yet to be presented. So we could conclude that statistically speaking it is very improbable that god exists.
I am maybe one of the few atheists that are not afraid to come out and say "God does not exist".
I am at a complete loss as to why someone would actually even consider the existence of god as possible. I can understand why someone would want to believe in a god, I can understand how someone could be convinced in god. But to actually worship a god and to speak to a god and to base your entire life perspective around god is a commitment I could never justify and struggle to comprehend.
The mind is a powerful organ, capable of manifesting ideas that our own intelligence struggles to comprehend. My own mind can manifest literally hundreds of explanations that could be responsible for creating the universe as we know it.
We could be part of a multi-verse, a parallel, an alien experiment, a matrix; our entire universe may exist in the mind of an advanced race of dolphins living on the planet meow? There are endless possibilities so why commit ourselves to just one? Because we like it? Or perhaps because it has been written down and added to over hundreds of years so it just makes sense to believe in it. Do theist' have any accurate un-bias explanation as to why there god is true and another god is not?
Am I being narrow minded for not seeing a world beyond what I can see or am I just being rational?
A theist once told me "in order to see God you must first believe in him” the problem for me is I must see God before I believe in him.
I have always believed that the man looking for the answer to that which is un-answerable will always find the answer he was looking for. To question that which we do not know must be left as just that.
In other words how does a theist know if the only reason he sees a world with God is because he believes that God is the creator of the world? How do you know that you’re no just convincing yourself into a false reality?
I can not claim to understand how the universe came to be but I know the laws of physics do exist. I can not claim to know how the origin of life came to be or claim to have a completely accurate understanding of evolution but I have seen the evidence that backs it up.
My point is if we are 100% honest with ourselves is there any real reason to believe in anything else rather than the physical reality that we live in everyday of our lives? Or do some people believe in God, Heaven, Hell, Souls & Spirits just because they want to believe that there has to be something better than the plain old scientific facts?
Because life, then eternal death isn't speacial enough for such an amazing, special, complex and intelligent being such as ourselves.
I am the first to admit I may have got it all wrong, for who am I to say that I the minority am the only one to have clear perspective in life.
Who am I to say that the majority who believe in a god or a deity have convinced themselves into believing in a false reality? All I can do is ask why? Why you and not I? We can both agree the sky is up there and the ground is down here. So what is it that you see that I can not?

Thank you for reading an I look forward to your opinions.

Re: Dawkins' Ultimate 747 Gambit

November 25th, 2011, 6:22 pm

If god is unknowable, how does it come to be that people claim to know so much about him?

Who says that God was the creator and God himself need not a creator?

How do you know that God does not see one day at a time?

The description of God is scripted in such a way that it is impossible to be proven either for or against, thus resulting in the need for faith.
An entity which relies souly on faith to acknowledge it's existence can never be subject to that which exists in the physical reality. Therefore any description given of the said God can't be proven for or against. In saying that anyone can come up with these empirical laws that you have stipulated that protects the named God from interrogation of science or a non-believer.
Surely a wise man would attempt to try and understand the world through methods which are in our grasp of logical comprehension? If by observing the world we live in through the means of Physics, Biology, Math and many many more of the sciences, is this not the best way to provide logical explanations to such matters as origins of life? At least these principles are testable, revisable, tangible & most of all comply with the universal laws that surround us everyday, without having to rely on faith.

Re: Dawkins' Ultimate 747 Gambit

November 25th, 2011, 6:41 pm

Archonthereasonable wrote:God is knowable. Those who say He isn't, lie.To state that someone else is lying in regards to this matter is not logical, it's an assertion.
If God is outside of time, then He needs no creator, anymore than a circle needs a starting point.I have yet to see some one create a circle with no starting point. Even an object of circular shape would have consisted of a starting point at some stage, unless of course it had existed for eternity which could not be proven
Because if God saw things one day at a time, then He would require a creator. Also, the Bible says so (WARNING: I absolutely hated having to say that) I do not mean that just because the Bible says it, it must be true, rather I mean that if the Christian God exists, He is outside of time, because that is how the hypothesis of God is stated.
Also, the description of God is provable and disprovable.
Also, the word "faith" has had its meaning changed. The modern "believe something without reason or evidence" is unbiblical. The original meaning meant "Something that isn't not perceived by the senses, but is still known by reason".

If something couldn't be perceived by our senses, what reason is there that it maybe known?

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