Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#16  Postby Greta » July 27th, 2017, 5:33 am

Synthesis wrote:
Greta wrote:I think it's because we already do so much of "something". We moderns are busy, with extraordinary productivity, thanks to machines.


Greta, peer out the nearest window and observe the vast majority of people. They are lucky that they can make it to their car. People don't want to have to do anything. This is a society completely dependent on everything outside of themselves. Nobody wants to cook, to clean, do their yard, etc., etc. They just want to play and stuff their faces while others do the work for them. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.

I believe one of the great lessons of the 20th century was that the most effective way to control populations was not through force [ala the Soviet Union or China], but instead, to give people everything they could possible want [cheap junk food and drugs, unlimited TV and porn, etc.]. For this privilege, people will turn a blind eye and allow the elite to have their way. It is a society of adult children.


Heh, Huxley was a genius. One would imagine that in such a society there would be ever more possibilities for the bright and talented, but automation has greatly reduced job opportunities.

So what are most people to do with themselves? What are people good for that machines cannot replace? What will be the functions of the various groups of people - the poor, the middle class and the wealthy - in this Brave New mechanised World?
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"



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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#17  Postby -1- » July 27th, 2017, 6:42 am

Greta wrote: What are people good for that machines cannot replace?

I'm thinking reproducing human dna... sum total of solely human functionality.

Oh, and singing "Stairway to Heaven" off-key at the top of our lungs.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#18  Postby Steve3007 » July 27th, 2017, 8:41 am

OP:

As an example of "something for nothing" you cited investing capital and getting a return on the investment. This is not something for nothing. It is something for risk. As the small print always tells you, the value of your investment may go down as well as up. Risk is something that has intrinsic value. Ask an Actuary.

-- Updated Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:44 pm to add the following --

Synthesis:

I believe one of the great lessons of the 20th century was that the most effective way to control populations was not through force [ala the Soviet Union or China], but instead, to give people everything they could possible want [cheap junk food and drugs, unlimited TV and porn, etc.]. For this privilege, people will turn a blind eye and allow the elite to have their way. It is a society of adult children.


This is not exactly a new idea. "Bread and Circuses".

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/bread-and-circuses
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#19  Postby Greta » July 27th, 2017, 9:20 am

-1- wrote:
Greta wrote: What are people good for that machines cannot replace?

I'm thinking reproducing human dna... sum total of solely human functionality.

Oh, and singing "Stairway to Heaven" off-key at the top of our lungs.

I'm sure we can think of something better than that, even if it's just replacing Stairway with Bohemian Rhapsody.

Another thought. If we are being softened and babied by our dominance and technology, that would seem a process that started with the formation of large groups with specialisation of labour, eg. there would have been a time when most horse riders were unable to shoe their own horses because the job was being done by the blacksmith. Similarly, in a sense bakers took from people the motivation to bake their own bread, and the work and skills largely ended up in the hands of specialists.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#20  Postby Eduk » July 30th, 2017, 4:20 am

There have always been 'rich' and 'poor'. Pick up a history book. I would argue 'poor' overall have never had it so good. 'rich' also have never had it so good.
Also when you purchase shares you are lending a company money. That company then seeks to leverage that investment to create greater wealth. Shares go up and down.
Having said that I believe I understand the point you are making. I have been thinking about this recently. I don't think it's a 'free lunch' as such that people are after. Although that is certainly a part of it. I think what people really want is often a reality that doesn't exist. Sometimes this manifests as a free lunch. Sometimes as sour grapes. Sometimes as cosmetic surgery. Sometimes as homeopathy and so on. The key constituent is not so much free, as cosmetic surgery is expensive, it's more a failure to accept reality.
Now as to why people need to be delusional is a different question. Basic lack of effort? Genuine lack of intelligence? Preference for ones beliefs to be the 'right' beliefs. Basic unconscious behaviour? I assume a mix of a lot of reasons. But I'm not really sure in what proportion. Is being lazy more significant than fear? Who knows.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#21  Postby Ranvier » August 8th, 2017, 7:18 pm

We all come from different social, educational, and economic backgrounds that affect the way we perceive our reality. I find that most people aren't "lazy" or "stupid" but they are the result of the vast amount of variables that results in who they are and how they live. I don't know many people in a bliss of ignorance sitting on a rocking chair all day long, starring into abyss in devoid of thought revealed in the absence of "spark" in their eyes... unless they're watching television :)

I believe that people are rational, where logic dictates that we should use a minimum amount of energy to accomplish a desired outcome. There is nothing unusual or "morally" unethical about this. The reason, in my opinion, why people object to the wealth or success of others is the "unfairness" in ease with which some people achieved plenty, while others are struggling to survive. Some people are born physically "attractive" while others will will have difficulty in attracting attention from prospective mate. Some people were born into wealth, while others will know nothing but poverty their entire life. Some people have difficulty in grasping simple concepts, while others where born with brilliant minds. Regardless of how much we want to perceive all individuals as equals, most people would agree that life is not that simple. It may be condescending or even disrespectful to suggest to others..."if you only work hard"...

The question in my mind becomes, what is the most pragmatic or sensible approach to this inherently "unfair" reality. Should we as a society embrace the Darwinian evolutionary survival of the fittest approach or morally negotiate the benefits of diversity?
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#22  Postby Synthesis » August 10th, 2017, 12:36 pm

Ranvier wrote:It may be condescending or even disrespectful to suggest to others..."if you only work hard"...


Nobody should have to suggest this to anybody. Society should reflect the outcome of those who work hard v. those who choose to do otherwise. Unfortunately, this is not the way economic systems are designed. Although there is correlation between hard work and success, much of the success people have has more to do with manipulation then hard work [for example, the FIRE (finance, insurance, and real estate) economy].

Once you alter the incentive to work [hard], you only have left a society of adult children who act like dys-functional teens.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#23  Postby Ranvier » August 10th, 2017, 1:32 pm

I concur, too often hard work is not rewarded with respect or tangible benefit but crafty schemes usually are. On the side note, I frequently observe people "spinning in place" doing plenty of "work" with little results... improper allocation of resources? It's curious why do we even insist on having laws and ethics, perhaps that's just more craftiness of the clever? I actually read on another post..."If you're only more creative"... in advice with similar disrespect. The word "work" is disrespectful in itself because it implies being nothing more than a "tool". Humans should be able to express their desire to make this world better and more beautiful place to live for themselves and hence everyone... not just work.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#24  Postby Steve3007 » August 10th, 2017, 2:20 pm

Synthesis:
Although there is correlation between hard work and success, much of the success people have has more to do with manipulation then hard work [for example, the FIRE (finance, insurance, and real estate) economy].


What do you regard as the defining feature of "hard work"? Is it related to the amount of physical labour performed? Is it work that directly results in a physically tangible product, like some food or a house? Are service industries not "hard work"?
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#25  Postby LuckyR » August 10th, 2017, 4:32 pm

As far as financial compensation is concerned (assuming that the individual is going to have to work for a living, unlike the wealthy), "hard work" that leads to success is NOT working hard at your adult actual job. Rather it is working hard as a child and teen at things that are NOT employment, to position yourself to get the kind of employment where you get paid for what you know, not what you do. Very little hard physical work is actually required at work.
"As usual... it depends."
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#26  Postby Ranvier » August 10th, 2017, 5:02 pm

Good point LuckyR.
Except for athletes and other professions that do not easily come to mind, there aren't many physical labor opportunities well compensating "hard work". I imagine that a dishwasher or farmer works very hard to make a living but I can't readily imagine them living in a mansion. Unless they're "crafty" :)
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#27  Postby Synthesis » August 11th, 2017, 1:52 pm

Steve3007 wrote:What do you regard as the defining feature of "hard work"? Is it related to the amount of physical labour performed? Is it work that directly results in a physically tangible product, like some food or a house? Are service industries not "hard work"?

Most service work is non-productive as it eats away at wealth. Productive labor is actually doing something that creates wealth.

On a personal level, it appears as if most people believe that the purpose of life is to sit around and do little other than find distractions to lull themselves out of their self-induced boredom. Work [taking care of oneself and one's needs] is what a fulfilling adult life actually is. What's the point of sitting around and doing little?
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#28  Postby LuckyR » August 12th, 2017, 12:35 am

Synthesis wrote:
Steve3007 wrote:What do you regard as the defining feature of "hard work"? Is it related to the amount of physical labour performed? Is it work that directly results in a physically tangible product, like some food or a house? Are service industries not "hard work"?

Most service work is non-productive as it eats away at wealth. Productive labor is actually doing something that creates wealth.

On a personal level, it appears as if most people believe that the purpose of life is to sit around and do little other than find distractions to lull themselves out of their self-induced boredom. Work [taking care of oneself and one's needs] is what a fulfilling adult life actually is. What's the point of sitting around and doing little?


Well to be fair, if you work at a job that has little autonomy and no appreciation from your corkers and clients, then why would you be invested in the work itself, that sort of thing is just a soul crushing means to a paycheck.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#29  Postby Synthesis » August 12th, 2017, 12:37 pm

LuckyR wrote:Well to be fair, if you work at a job that has little autonomy and no appreciation from your corkers and clients, then why would you be invested in the work itself, that sort of thing is just a soul crushing means to a paycheck.

Because at some point, you have to begin to take responsibility for yourself and make your life about helping others [after getting your own act together] and not worrying about how [fill in the blank] everything is or what anybody else thinks.
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Re: Why Do People Lust After "Something for Nothing?"

Post Number:#30  Postby -1- » August 12th, 2017, 1:28 pm

Synthesis wrote:Because at some point, you have to begin to take responsibility for yourself and make your life about helping others [after getting your own act together] and not worrying about how [fill in the blank] everything is or what anybody else thinks.

This is exactly, word-for-word, what I heard a bloke lady say to the group at an AA meeting yesterday.
Sweat the small stuff... because then the big stuff will take care of itself.
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