It's Chemical
- Whitedragon
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It's Chemical
What is love ? Although this blog is not about love itself, often when the emotion love comes up, they say it is only chemical. What lies beyond it, though ? Is it on whether it is chemical … or is it on WHY it is chemical. To clarify this, why, refers not to the chemicals, but that which lies beyond them ; who or what sets it into motion and is it for the right reasons or not ?
Perhaps love is NOT the chemicals, but the person and his or her personality that evokes them. We will discuss two major questions. Do people and things evoke chemical reactions, and what is the value at looking at the people rather than the chemicals ? We will also discuss chemical attachment to the wrong things and people. Thus, the discussion is on whether the emphasis lies with the chemicals or the things and people that evoke their reactions. Some things make our chemicals seethe, but does it have value ? Are there some things that educe little endorphins, but hold the key to success and perhaps even happiness ?
The suggestion is that something, like love, is primarily stimulated externally, which calls the primary cause of emotion into question. Anyone can evoke a chemical reaction. We can fall in love with a user or a good person. Although chemicals can bind us to the right or wrong person, we fall for the person. It is inherently in that person, but the chemicals make the love possible. Where do we place the emphasis, on the chemicals or the things and people that set them in motion ? If we lived alone in a desert, we have chemical potential to love, but no one to set it in motion neither can we project it on anyone. Every time we love, it is different, but really, the person is different, which makes the argument for love being solely a chemical harder to believe.
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Re: It's Chemical
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Re: It's Chemical
- Whitedragon
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Re: It's Chemical
Yes boots, one cannot but help to lean to this argument that it involves what we have invested. It must play one of the biggest roles in a relationship. However, how do we get to the point of love ? Being in love is the preamble for it. Without it, we might not want to invest at all. So what makes us willing to invest, just the person or the chemicals, and again, which is most important ?
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Re: It's Chemical
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Re: It's Chemical
Whitedragon wrote:Thank you Thinkingcat, we still have to contend with the notion of quantum physics, which suggest that our minds play a role in our environment, which could make for a very interesting twist in the discussion.
Yes boots, one cannot but help to lean to this argument that it involves what we have invested. It must play one of the biggest roles in a relationship. However, how do we get to the point of love ? Being in love is the preamble for it. Without it, we might not want to invest at all. So what makes us willing to invest, just the person or the chemicals, and again, which is most important ?
The individual to whom we are initially attracted possesses some traits/chemicals/pheromones or what-have-you that are attractive to us. Why are these particular traits/chemicals/pheromones attractive to us and not others? Because that is what we are wired to be attracted to.
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Re: It's Chemical
But going back to other social animals, can their desire for sex be considered love? Do they view that way or even have a name for it? Dogs also interact with one another. Can we call this interactions love?
How about non-social species? Do they experience love? Does a lizard love another when they have sex? How about when they fight? These are certainly behaviors or needs.
Then, there´s love across species. I think it is possible.
- Whitedragon
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Re: It's Chemical
Logic_ill, another question we can ask is, why do people cheat on each other ? There could be more than one reason … the one that stands out is when a partner is no longer satisfied with what the other party has to offer. A beautiful partner can potentially have more mates than others that are less attractive ; the long term infidelity often gravitates to the lack of other compatibility between the two people. For example, why would a man spend more time with his male friend, hanging out all the time, and hardly speak to his wife ? (No sex jokes please – let us assume they are not gay).
Perhaps what we have in common is what binds us together, and what is lasting ; not just wild hormones.
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Re: It's Chemical
I think a reason why some men cheat is because they not only think they can get away with it, but they are also somehow taught to. I mean some guys do it for sport and they find much male support. If she is female, the reasons can range from boredom to being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc. Long term relationships might rarely get away without something frisky going on with either male or female. It's just bound to happen if either of the two is attractive and attracted to someone else outside that relationship. Proximity to others is a major factor.
Hanging out with friends, in my view, may be less burdensome or even boring to both the male and female. It depends on the couple and whether they truly enjoy one another's company. Some men just want a woman for sex and try to avoid any other type of relationship with them, even if they are married. Some may have too much to hide or don't want to complicate things by mixing friends and wife. They may be the jealous type or the secretive type. There are a whole range of reasons for that kind of BS.
We are under the constant influence of our chemical reactions because we are alive, but our stories are what's most real to us. I think love should be ever present.
But I don't want to place blame on the male alone. I mean any sex can cheat, especially with the ups and downs of long term relationships. Not that they should.
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Re: It's Chemical
Initial attraction to anything or anyone has myriad explanations from chemical to aesthetics. I like small sports cars and someone else likes rat rods. I buy a sports car I like and over time I may love that car. That will happen once I emotionally invest in the car. To what degree I love and when exactly that occurs is individual.Whitedragon wrote:Boots, that thought did come up initially. The chemicals and pheromones we give off do play a role and it is a very good point you raise. However, what about the things people say, the things people believe. What about the movies and music taste we share; chemically we might love Mozart or the Beetles, maybe even both. What we believe however, philosophy about, (if we do), is that just chemical, or does our interests and convictions go beyond chemicals ? Electro chemical action in the brain stores it and sets it in motion, but if we never share our ideas with someone, it might be just that which makes them lose interest.
Logic_ill, another question we can ask is, why do people cheat on each other ? There could be more than one reason … the one that stands out is when a partner is no longer satisfied with what the other party has to offer. A beautiful partner can potentially have more mates than others that are less attractive ; the long term infidelity often gravitates to the lack of other compatibility between the two people. For example, why would a man spend more time with his male friend, hanging out all the time, and hardly speak to his wife ? (No sex jokes please – let us assume they are not gay).
Perhaps what we have in common is what binds us together, and what is lasting ; not just wild hormones.
- Whitedragon
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Re: It's Chemical
Indeed, but if there were no sport cars or rat rods, how could one be attached to it, which is the primary focus of the thread. Imagine a man who has one sense missing, like sight, or smell – the world that exists for us in sight or smell is absent for him. Relevant chemicals in our world will remain dormant, which compels us to place the emphasis of importance on the external world.Initial attraction to anything or anyone has myriad explanations from chemical to aesthetics. I like small sports cars and someone else likes rat rods. I buy a sports car I like and over time I may love that car. That will happen once I emotionally invest in the car. To what degree I love and when exactly that occurs is individual.
Saying that chemicals are just as important as the external world is arbitrary, since inanimate devices can also observe their surroundings, what about the Star Trek Data, who had no emotions for the majority of the series ? Certainly chemicals make it worthwhile, but viewers of the show would argue Data’s contribution as a “non-emotional” was an important element, which could be seen as an anchor for those with emotion. Such a character grounds the others and helps them view the world from a more objective point of view.
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Re: It's Chemical
If there is nothing to attach to, then there is nothing to attach to. I'm not sure what point you're making here.Whitedragon wrote:Boot said :Indeed, but if there were no sport cars or rat rods, how could one be attached to it, which is the primary focus of the thread. Imagine a man who has one sense missing, like sight, or smell – the world that exists for us in sight or smell is absent for him. Relevant chemicals in our world will remain dormant, which compels us to place the emphasis of importance on the external world.Initial attraction to anything or anyone has myriad explanations from chemical to aesthetics. I like small sports cars and someone else likes rat rods. I buy a sports car I like and over time I may love that car. That will happen once I emotionally invest in the car. To what degree I love and when exactly that occurs is individual.
Saying that chemicals are just as important as the external world is arbitrary, since inanimate devices can also observe their surroundings, what about the Star Trek Data, who had no emotions for the majority of the series ? Certainly chemicals make it worthwhile, but viewers of the show would argue Data’s contribution as a “non-emotional” was an important element, which could be seen as an anchor for those with emotion. Such a character grounds the others and helps them view the world from a more objective point of view.
The pheromones, chemicals, neurotransmitters at work to drive attraction are internal and react to the external. If an individual is missing the relevant 'chemicals', then that individual will not feel attraction and possibly love.
- Whitedragon
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Re: It's Chemical
It is similar to the religious discussions on forums. The ability to explain the working of something should not dismiss or diminish it. Such an attitude is unwise, since it would suggest a false sense of omniscience and that knowledge can destroy mystery, beauty, and inherent value. Why do people have the tendency to lose their feeling of awe for something when they can explain it scientifically ? This is troublesome since what we think and what we feel is pushed aside, (even along with the things and people we attach ourselves with). It leaves the possibility to condone malevolent behaviour because feelings are inconsequential. If feelings are just chemicals, we can argue its importance is an illusion, which calls the things we value, which we attach ourselves to in to question. Not all people are like this, but many develop a condescending, superior attitude to the things they understand ; for some awe increases, for some arrogance, and even ignorance despite a knowledge that supposedly grows.
- The Beast
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Re: It's Chemical
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Re: It's Chemical
As to love in other species: I'd guess that some sort of affection occurs in all species that take care of their young. Something like romantic love might exist in species that pair up for long periods or even for life. I doubt animals love each other if their encounters are merely sexual.
Although this view of quantum physics is popular in mainstream media, it is a minority position among the experts in the field. Some feel it's been experimentally disproven. Regardless of whether that's the case, the view runs into logical problems.Whitedragon wrote:we still have to contend with the notion of quantum physics, which suggest that our minds play a role in our environment, which could make for a very interesting twist in the discussion.
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