Is it wrong to have kids?

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LuckyR
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by LuckyR » July 19th, 2017, 3:33 am

Woodart wrote:Bruno Bettelheim made the statement ( I cannot find where) that not having children is like missing art or music.
Only if you named your son Art and your daughter Music. The world would be a much better place if only folks who were cut out to be good parents actually had kids. (Which is a small subset of actual parents)
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Steve3007
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Steve3007 » July 21st, 2017, 6:44 am

I'd say it might be wrong to have more than 2.1 children. But not a hanging offence.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Annski
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Annski » August 16th, 2017, 9:02 am

Does it really matter?

All of it I mean. If children deserve to be born, if it's right to have children, if life is worth living or if there's any meaning to it in the first place. What exactly does the answer to those questions change? And what would you even do with that information? If the answer is that we don't deserve to exist, it is wrong to have children and not just go extinct, life is not worth living and it was all pointless to begin with... well then what? Are you just going to kill yourself? It will all just go on anyway so it doesn't matter. Everyone else will just keep living regardless so why not you too. Meaning and value is something we have created, it's literally a social construct that helps us in the reality that is.

Everything does not have to be right or wrong. Bottom line is we live until we die, no matter what we do. The only variable is how long and how good the time living is, so we all might as well just make it as good as possible. The only other options are to let it be ****, or to cut it all short - and that's far more pointless.

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LuckyR
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by LuckyR » August 16th, 2017, 12:43 pm

Annski wrote:Does it really matter?

All of it I mean. If children deserve to be born, if it's right to have children, if life is worth living or if there's any meaning to it in the first place. What exactly does the answer to those questions change? And what would you even do with that information? If the answer is that we don't deserve to exist, it is wrong to have children and not just go extinct, life is not worth living and it was all pointless to begin with... well then what? Are you just going to kill yourself? It will all just go on anyway so it doesn't matter. Everyone else will just keep living regardless so why not you too. Meaning and value is something we have created, it's literally a social construct that helps us in the reality that is.

Everything does not have to be right or wrong. Bottom line is we live until we die, no matter what we do. The only variable is how long and how good the time living is, so we all might as well just make it as good as possible. The only other options are to let it be ****, or to cut it all short - and that's far more pointless.
Well, one thing is self evident. If your assessment of the current situation is that having children is "wrong" for whatever reason, you are by definition likely to be a piss poor parent and society at large will be better off if you don't try to parent a child. This is totally separate of whether or not the initial assessment of the current state of affairs is accurate or not.
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Pages » August 27th, 2017, 11:57 am

Steve3007 wrote: (having children to avoid being mocked seems a particularly odd one).
It's one of the main reasons people have kids in the most part of Africa
Steve3007 wrote: I did it because my genes told me to.
It's dangerous when a man starts to get controlled by his penis or a woman, her vagina.

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 12:31 pm to add the following --
Annski wrote:Does it really matter?

All of it I mean. If children deserve to be born, if it's right to have children, if life is worth living or if there's any meaning to it in the first place. What exactly does the answer to those questions change? And what would you even do with that information? If the answer is that we don't deserve to exist, it is wrong to have children and not just go extinct, life is not worth living and it was all pointless to begin with... well then what? Are you just going to kill yourself? It will all just go on anyway so it doesn't matter. Everyone else will just keep living regardless so why not you too. Meaning and value is something we have created, it's literally a social construct that helps us in the reality that is.

Everything does not have to be right or wrong. Bottom line is we live until we die, no matter what we do. The only variable is how long and how good the time living is, so we all might as well just make it as good as possible. The only other options are to let it be ****, or to cut it all short - and that's far more pointless.
Suffering is real it's not a social construct and it is wrong, whichever way you look at it. Risking a kid's chance of being either miserable or happy for whatever reason isn't worth it.

True, everyone would keep living and no I won't kill myself but, maybe with enough awareness about how having kids for selfish reasons is wrong, people would see life differently and help a kid by letting it be where ever it was. We are all part of nature, my view on the matter is natural and so if it leads us to go extinct it would be natural too.

-- Updated August 27th, 2017, 12:36 pm to add the following --
LuckyR wrote:
Well, one thing is self evident. If your assessment of the current situation is that having children is "wrong" for whatever reason, you are by definition likely to be a piss poor parent and society at large will be better off if you don't try to parent a child. This is totally separate of whether or not the initial assessment of the current state of affairs is accurate or not.
I think I'd be more likely to be a perfect parent for having that view about having children than a person who doesn't.
Two possibilities exist... Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
- Arthur C. Clarke

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LuckyR
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by LuckyR » August 28th, 2017, 2:32 am

Pages wrote:
LuckyR wrote:
Well, one thing is self evident. If your assessment of the current situation is that having children is "wrong" for whatever reason, you are by definition likely to be a piss poor parent and society at large will be better off if you don't try to parent a child. This is totally separate of whether or not the initial assessment of the current state of affairs is accurate or not.
I think I'd be more likely to be a perfect parent for having that view about having children than a person who doesn't.
Really? Do you also want to be operated on by a surgeon who doesn't give much credence to western medicine?
"As usual... it depends."

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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Pages » August 28th, 2017, 2:57 am

LuckyR wrote: Really? Do you also want to be operated on by a surgeon who doesn't give much credence to western medicine?
It's different. I think it is wrong to have kids because of the suffering (mental or physical) and uncertainties not because when I see kids I feel like staking them. So, if I do have a kid, I would try by any means to help the kid avoid all that. Thus, would make me a better parent.
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Socrateaze » August 28th, 2017, 4:09 am

Considering the OP question,

Okay, so what you're secretly saying is that humanity should not exist, because there is suffering? Is the end of species worth the avoidance of pain? I would rather say it's better if parents that should not have children, don't. Here I'm talking about people like my cousin, who is a psychopath, who throws away her job, just to go on holidays. She's had many jobs, but can't understand why she doesn't have money if she quits them for bogus reasons. Now she sponges on my other two cousins, making their life hell. She also has a child, that is exactly the same as she is now. The child does not perform in school and never learned to talk properly, she's sixteen now. The mother steals and lies about everything and the kid copies her; in this case, I would say having a child was a bad idea. But surely, those who CAN have families and make it work should do so; not only to insure the continuation of life, but also just to live it and enjoy it. You remind me of a game my older cousin showed me, Arcanum. This one boss he had to fight also had a nihilistic approach about life and wanted to wipe out all of it. Can't remember the name of the boss he had to fight, he only showed me the cinematics once and I played it for about three days until I got bored with it.

So what gives, save the children kill mankind? :)
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Pages » August 28th, 2017, 6:26 am

Socrateaze wrote: So what gives, save the children kill mankind? :)
No, save mankind
Two possibilities exist... Either we are alone in the universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
- Arthur C. Clarke

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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Socrateaze » August 28th, 2017, 8:23 am

Pages wrote:
Socrateaze wrote: So what gives, save the children kill mankind? :)
No, save mankind
Explain.

If we're not going to have children, then how will we populate the earth, unless you're suggestion is selective natal control.
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Phorever » August 28th, 2017, 1:12 pm

Pages wrote:I know that everyone is selfish in a right or wrong way but, it is wrongly selfish to have kids. Here is why

For all we know, life is just a journey to the grave. The reason why we even attach any form of moral to it is because more than one person exists.

There are a lot of reasons why people have children, non of which is FOR the child
- not to be lonely (companionship)
- so others won't mock or insult you,
- to build a community,
- for ritual purposes
- to carry on the family's legacy (whatever it is) etc.

Look at the world today, conjure your sympathetic side and tell me if any kid deserves to be here.
From the beginning of life till the end is just sorrow. Exception might be
Your parents are very wealthy and you don't care about others. If not, you would realize that you still can't save the world and that too is depressing. Even if you are wealthy you are going to have to deal with the fact that you are gonna die and there's nothing you can do about it.
It doesn't matter whether you are rich or not, there is a possibility of giving birth to a psychopath, terrorist, rapist etc. but, the parents are too blinded by their selfishness that they're willing to risk it.

And for the record, I wish I was never born
Life isn't worth living.
Your parents sat down and made decisions of whether to have you or not but, who asked you if you wanted to come or not?
It isn't fair to have kids. 
It's only wrong to have bad parents.

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LuckyR
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by LuckyR » August 29th, 2017, 3:00 am

Pages wrote:
LuckyR wrote: Really? Do you also want to be operated on by a surgeon who doesn't give much credence to western medicine?
It's different. I think it is wrong to have kids because of the suffering (mental or physical) and uncertainties not because when I see kids I feel like staking them. So, if I do have a kid, I would try by any means to help the kid avoid all that. Thus, would make me a better parent.
If by better, you mean better than you would have been if you didn't, then I don't disagree with you
"As usual... it depends."

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Bradiation
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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Bradiation » September 9th, 2017, 12:22 am

Wonderful topic of discussion with such educated individuals; Here is a vid that explains some of the many driving forces when deciding on a kids future- The three states of consciousness: illusion, delusion, or fact. Pick one...

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Re: Is it wrong to have kids?

Post by Gulnara » November 3rd, 2017, 9:29 pm

Seven daughters of Eve. They birthed modern humans. One of them had such quality as ability to raise children by being king and nice to them. Love of children. Other winning qualities among those daughters were desire to be beautiful by dressing beautifully, singing, being very hospitable, etc. Among all those qualities one stands out as very promising for continuation of humanity: a loving mother, kind and caring and fun. I don't think her children will ever dispise life.

-- Updated Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:37 pm to add the following --
Gulnara wrote:Seven daughters of Eve. They birthed modern humans. One of them had such quality as ability to raise children by being king and nice to them. Love of children. Other winning qualities among those daughters were desire to be beautiful by dressing beautifully, singing, being very hospitable, etc. Among all those qualities one stands out as very promising for continuation of humanity: a loving mother, kind and caring and fun. I don't think her children will ever dispise life.
I want to add that all those seven daughters of Eve did not live some lavish lives, they had harsh lives, they worked hard on everything in their lives, including raising children. People today forget that it takes a hero to live, to overcome, to reach, to achieve, to love. Humans who's got it too esay, might not value life, not value having children. However, world is made up mostly of people for whom life is not a walk in a park. This fact is main reason why humans still exist and why children are being born and life goes on. A bit of dedication to a cause of life is not a last thing.

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