Is it wrong to have kids?

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I know that everyone is selfish in a right or wrong way but, it is wrongly selfish to have kids. Here is why

For all we know, life is just a journey to the grave. The reason why we even attach any form of moral to it is because more than one person exists.

There are a lot of reasons why people have children, non of which is FOR the child
- not to be lonely (companionship)
- so others won't mock or insult you,
- to build a community,
- for ritual purposes
- to carry on the family's legacy (whatever it is) etc.

Look at the world today, conjure your sympathetic side and tell me if any kid deserves to be here.
From the beginning of life till the end is just sorrow. Exception might be
Your parents are very wealthy and you don't care about others. If not, you would realize that you still can't save the world and that too is depressing. Even if you are wealthy you are going to have to deal with the fact that you are gonna die and there's nothing you can do about it.
It doesn't matter whether you are rich or not, there is a possibility of giving birth to a psychopath, terrorist, rapist etc. but, the parents are too blinded by their selfishness that they're willing to risk it.

And for the record, I wish I was never born
Life isn't worth living.
Your parents sat down and made decisions of whether to have you or not but, who asked you if you wanted to come or not?
It isn't fair to have kids. 

[Lucylu]

From the beginning of life till the end is just sorrow.

And for the record, I wish I was never born
Life isn't worth living.
Your parents sat down and made decisions of whether to have you or not but, who asked you if you wanted to come or not?
It isn't fair to have kids. 

Don't forget how hard it is to raise children, and the enormous amount of time, money, patience and sacrifice it takes. And the toll on your body and maybe your sex life. Its not all cute babies, laughing and playing games. Caring unconditionally for someone else is one of the hardest things on the planet, especially when you are not allowed to leave them alone, no matter what they do to you, how manipulative they are or how exhausted you are.

It sounds as if you are going through a difficult time in your life, so at the moment you see life as one long heartache thats always the same, but when you're in a good phaze again, you will feel that life is full of ups and downs and is always changing and flowing. Our mind just tricks us into believing that how we feel now is the only reality.

[Pages]

From the beginning of life till the end is just sorrow.

And for the record, I wish I was never born
Life isn't worth living.
Your parents sat down and made decisions of whether to have you or not but, who asked you if you wanted to come or not?
It isn't fair to have kids. 

Don't forget how hard it is to raise children, and the enormous amount of time, money, patience and sacrifice it takes. And the toll on your body and maybe your sex life. Its not all cute babies, laughing and playing games. Caring unconditionally for someone else is one of the hardest things on the planet, especially when you are not allowed to leave them alone, no matter what they do to you, how manipulative they are or how exhausted you are.

It sounds as if you are going through a difficult time in your life, so at the moment you see life as one long heartache thats always the same, but when you're in a good phaze again, you will feel that life is full of ups and downs and is always changing and flowing. Our mind just tricks us into believing that how we feel now is the only reality.

I am aware of the rough patient process of nurturing a child but, why go through all that? Is having children anything more than just an instinctive drive or selfishness (as I have explained what I mean by it earlier)?

And uhmm... You are right... I am going through a rough difficult time but, not because of me, I understand how messed up life is. I'm going through a rough time because I see kids suffering and I can't help them. So, that makes me wonder why they are even born.

Do you have kids?
If yes, why do you have them?
If no, why would you wanna have kids? (if you would want to have kids)

[Lucylu]

I am aware of the rough patient process of nurturing a child but, why go through all that? Is having children anything more than just an instinctive drive or selfishness (as I have explained what I mean by it earlier)?

And uhmm... You are right... I am going through a rough difficult time but, not because of me, I understand how messed up life is. I'm going through a rough time because I see kids suffering and I can't help them. So, that makes me wonder why they are even born.

Do you have kids?
If yes, why do you have them?
If no, why would you wanna have kids? (if you would want to have kids)

Having children is a personal decision. If you don't want to have children yourself there are ways that you could alleviate the suffering of children, such as fostering or working/volunteering with children. That would make you feel better too, by doing something about the negative feelings you have.

I'm not very traditional and am happiest when on the go and free to travel, so I don't have children and don't want them at the moment- although I reserve the right to change my mind down the road! I don't feel getting married and having kids is the only or obvious option in life. Ironically my family thinks that is selfish! I'm too happy! Ha!

If you've decided to build a life without children and aren't happy then you still face the large responsibility of deciding what to do with your life. You will have a lot more free time, and more autonomy than someone who settles down and has 2.4 children. And (in my experience) if you don't manage your time and your life goals properly you may get bored and moody. Maybe you feel (as I did) some unconscious guilt for not having children and that's causing you to focus on children's suffering or maybe that really is something you want to do something about. You're free to explore that and put it aside if its not making you happy.

What I found is -many things I did because I was told growing up that that's what a woman should do and so those beliefs were imbedded. Then one day I realized I was miserable and I hated just about everything about my life, and I just scrapped everything and started over. Save yourself! Life is short. Maybe there is some other big life or professional challenge out there for you, that will divert your energy away from worrying about other people and society. You have the freedom to do anything you want!

[Ormond]

And uhmm... You are right... I am going through a rough difficult time but, not because of me, I understand how messed up life is. I'm going through a rough time because I see kids suffering and I can't help them.

Apologies, sorry to be harsh but...

Not buying it.

[BardoXV]

Some people have kids because they like sex and sometimes things happen. When I married my 2nd wife I already had a son from the first marriage, and I told my wife having children was entirely up to her because I already had a son.

A few years ago I read a lot of Zen, and I don't agree that living is all suffering, that has not been my experience, there is a lot more joy in my life than suffering. But maybe I'm just not looking for the bad things in life.

[Logic_ill]

It's not wrong to have kids but no one is necessarily exempt from suffering. It would be ideal for parents or the child's caregivers do their best parenting possible but even that doesn't guarantee total hapiness.

Despite the fact that there may be anguish in life, however, experiencing it (good and bad) may be worth it. Independently of pur spiritua/religious beliefs, non-beliefs or doubts/questions, if many of us were asked whether they think it's better to have had experienced a life or nothing at all, I think they might choose the former.

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 10:04 am to add the following --

"Despite the fact that there may be anguish in life, experiencing it (good and bad) may be worth it.

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Having children is a personal decision.

That's exactly my point. It isn't. It's 2 people making decision for the other person... A decision that the third party doesn't have a choice to revert... It isn't fair...

If you don't want to have children yourself there are ways that you could alleviate the suffering of children, such as fostering or working/volunteering with children. That would make you feel better too, by doing something about the negative feelings you have.

Good suggestion

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 12:48 pm to add the following --

And uhmm... You are right... I am going through a rough difficult time but, not because of me, I understand how messed up life is. I'm going through a rough time because I see kids suffering and I can't help them.

Apologies, sorry to be harsh but...

Not buying it.

Hehe... It's okay.

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 1:00 pm to add the following --

It's not wrong to have kids but no one is necessarily exempt from suffering. It would be ideal for parents or the child's caregivers do their best parenting possible but even that doesn't guarantee total hapiness.

Why put yourself and the innocent child through all that? Gambling with a child's possibility of a comfortable or uncomfortable life is a little too harsh, don't you think?

Despite the fact that there may be anguish in life, however, experiencing it (good and bad) may be worth it. Independently of pur spiritua/religious beliefs, non-beliefs or doubts/questions, if many of us were asked whether they think it's better to have had experienced a life or nothing at all, I think they might choose the former.

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 10:04 am to add the following --

"Despite the fact that there may be anguish in life, experiencing it (good and bad) may be worth it.

Do you know why a child cry when it's born? Discomfort and you know what's strange... Parents are happy that it is alive... Smh... Funny
From the moment you are born you start to look forward to the day you'd die. I still can't see what it's worth...

[Ormond]

I still can't see what it's worth...

I think this is your answer. This thread isn't really about having kids, but about your own relationship with being alive.

[Lucylu]

That's exactly my point. It isn't. It's 2 people making decision for the other person... A decision that the third party doesn't have a choice to revert... It isn't fair...

Some people believe that we choose to be born, from some other plain of existence.

From the moment you are born you start to look forward to the day you'd die. I still can't see what it's worth...

That's not true for everybody. Pain is just one part of life, not the whole thing and if we accept that rather than expecting everything to be perfect then it gets a whole lot easier. Perhaps you are focusing on the bad and ignoring the good. It does sound like you are suffering from some form of depression if you always feel melancholy. Maybe you should visit your doctor?

[Pages]

Some people believe that we choose to be born, from some other plain of existence.

What do you think?

That's not true for everybody. Pain is just one part of life, not the whole thing and if we accept that rather than expecting everything to be perfect then it gets a whole lot easier. Perhaps you are focusing on the bad and ignoring the good. It does sound like you are suffering from some form of depression if you always feel melancholy. Maybe you should visit your doctor?

Funny, somebody else suggested that too... Believe me, it isn't about me

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 1:53 pm to add the following --

...What do you believe...? Because nobody asked me whether or not I wanted to be born

[Logic_ill]

Ormond,
Most people fo not plan to have children; they simply have them. Reproduction is a part of life and we do not all have complete control over it. Abortions are not performed worldwide and I do not think it should be because of the health risks and species risk.

There are other ways of preventing chileren but they are not foolproof. What do we get then? Human life.

Once you live or have lived some, you establish a relationship with life. That's when I think many people or most people would say they would rather have experienced life than nothing at all, even if that life doesn't seem too happy.

It's not the parent's fault they had children, as much as it's not the children's fault they were born. The parents did not choose to be born either, but need to live their lives in the manner they see fit.

The only thing the living have is their life experiences, some may be good, bad or somewhere in between. No matter what, it will some day end but life was experienced and most people would rather have that, than nothing at all.

I include myself among them, even though I sometimes suffer from a grave sense of fear over that which I cannot control.

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 2:27 pm to add the following --

Sorry, the pist was addressed to Pages. There are also spelling and grammar mistakes?(mobile phones)

-- Updated August 20th, 2016, 2:27 pm to add the following --

Post!

[Lucylu]

What do you think?

Well, I think there is something greater going on than we are aware of most of the time and that life can be really wonderful. I've disliked society and people in my time, but never life itself. I think nature is awesome and life is miraculous. Our hearts our beating away thousands of times a day, even in our sleep. How is that possible? What is that spark of life? Amazing!

Funny, somebody else suggested that too... Believe me, it isn't about me

...What do you believe...? Because nobody asked me whether or not I wanted to be born

It is actually a common part of depression to be in denial and not be able to see it- to believe what we feel is true and everyone else is blind. We might even think that other people just don't care as much as us or aren't as sensitive or intelligent as us. That's why we feel so deeply, and cant get through life..because we are superior! 'There's nothing wrong with me, its everybody else!!' Saying, 'nobody asked me if I wanted to be born' sounds a little like something a younger person might say when they have no control over their life. But I'm assuming you do have control over yours? If not, why not? Are you sure you aren't projecting you're own suffering on to other people's children?

I agree with Logic_ill- babies often just happen naturally when people are in the flow of life. Depression is the opposite to flow.

At the end of the day, if you really don't want to live then you don't have to, but really we don't live that long anyway and time gets faster as you get older. Just chill out, wait a few more summers and a few more winters and it'll be time to pop your clogs anyway! You may as well enjoy the ride. You're on it now.

[TSBU]

Wrong or right is a matter of perspective. It's right to be with the person you love for you, but not everybody like the same things or love that person, better that way XD (a simple difference, women and men generally don't need or want the same things to be happy, so their "right" is not the same for both).

So... is it right to have children? well, can be it, for some people.

But if you are asking about ethic. Well... it's the same, we don't have the same ethic, we don't need the same things to be happy. But if ethic means something to you (that is, punishment and rewards depending in how good or bad is a person), I don't think it is a good idea to be rude with all the people that make babies.

Of course, nearly everybody prefer to have babies and live their lifes knowing that they don't derserve a better life than people who is living in hell, but that's how it is, life isn't perfect, and then you die. If you can't be happy with that, it's a shame. It can be worse, you could have been born with a genetic disease with perpetual pain (a different kind of pain) or something like that (and I don't know why that should make you happy, but it seems like it works sometimes)

Oh, I want to have babies. I just want...why do you want to eat? why do you want to post this in a forum?But I don't think that's going to happen cause I want that babies in a context.

But... aaaalways loooook at the briiiiight side of life.

[Sy Borg]

I note that those who can guarantee their child a short, difficult and painful life are having large families while those capable of providing a much better life for children are increasingly remaining childless.