Too Much Tolerance?

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Nick_A
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Nick_A »

Dolphin42 wrote:Nick_A:
At least you are honest. Most would probably claim they do want to become human. Your sincerity is admirable.
Really?!? Most humans claim that they want to become human? What a strange species.
I know it seems odd but if you research the question of how to become yourself, you'll find many books and millions being made from people claiming they want to become themselves - to become human. Yet we both know this is just BS. The satisfaction coming from not being oneself is far too attractive. So people are hypocrites. What else is new?
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
Dolphin42
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Dolphin42 »

Nick_A:

I don't know about "becoming themselves". There certainly does seem to be a vast "self-help" industry of nonsense books by people claiming to help us to achieve our hidden potential and such like. In a free market it seems to me fairly predictable that a lot of people would try to make money by exploiting the "I could have been a contender" side of human nature. I don't think it has anything to do with becoming more human. Just the same old snake oil salesmen that have been around for a very long time. Same as people who exploit the bereaved by claiming to be able to talk to the dead. Wherever there is a strong human emotional need there will be someone who sees the money-making potential in it.
Alias
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Alias »

Lark_Truth wrote:If it was only society's tolerance of homosexuality, then I would state that.
You did state that. You did not state what words or actions relating to homosexuality you would like to see curtailed, how much and in what way.
You also mentioned other vague issues related to gender identity that were ambiguous.
It's hard to tell what it is you think liberals are too tolerant of.
It's also hard to see why you characterize American society as liberal.
I see more to society's tolerance then that. Fornication on TV for instance, not because of public demand, but because of producer desire.
What happened to change the producers so drastically between 1950 and 2017? Might they not have been motivated by pressure to bring in more revenue,
by presenting more of the fare that sells? Might sex not have been one of the subjects that sell?
Just to add, pornography is one of the top ten industries in the US,
There, see? Public demand.
and there is still a lot of cyberbullying and the child sex-slave trade going on.
That senetence does not scan. What is the connection between cyber-bullying and sex slavery?
There is a lot that society - in my opinion - is being to tolerant about.
How have liberals contributed to the tolerance of bullying and child sex trade? How does their contribution compare to the
contribution of conservatives? How does this relate to the tolerance of other people's views?

Seems to me, you're outlining the problems inherent in a profit-driven society, more than those of a tolerant society.

What do you propose as a solution?


(PS - I would dearly love to see a dolphin with his hand to his heart.)

-- Updated March 7th, 2017, 1:56 pm to add the following --

How does any of this relate to insufficient tolerance for Trump's terrible behaviour as a man and as a head of state, or his widely publicised lies?
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by -1- »

Greta wrote:When I see people getting worked up about gays and transgenders when they clearly know nothing about it I think of Shakespeare's quote ""The lady doth protest too much, methinks". Replace "lady" with many of those with intense anti views.


I thought the connotation was something entirely different. Denying something very much known, in fact, participating in a guilty pleasure, which is unbecoming of a society lady. Therefore, and considering that you think:

[quote\I personally think there's too much tolerance for billionaires and multinationals dodging tax. Why isn't Trump being compelled to be transparent about his financial affairs? Why has he not been required to properly separate himself from his business affairs? Imagine applying for a job where you are told there's a conflict of interest and you'll must to get rid of your business. You tell your prospective employer, "That's okay, I'll leave the business with my kids to mind while I'm doing the job. That way there will be no conflict". Now imagine the once-prospective employer's reaction.

We show much too much tolerance for the ultra-wealthy cheating us out of monies to pay for infrastructure, health and other government services. Instead people carry on about transgenders in bathrooms (who are presumably hoping to go into a bathroom where they don't risk being insulted and maybe beaten up).[/quote]

I can only infer that you are multinational soccer star drawing a multibillion-Euro salary from a third-world women's soccer team, and intent on using only transgendered personal pronouns in your everyday speech.

Das Lady doth protest too much.

-- Updated 2017 March 7th, 6:09 pm to add the following --

Forgot to add:

(-;
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Dolphin42
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Dolphin42 »

Alias:
(PS - I would dearly love to see a dolphin with his hand to his heart.)
Good point. When I wrote that post I had genuinely forgotten that I am not actually a human but am an aquatic mammal. So striving to become human would actually not be entirely nonsensical. But, of course, we dolphins still wouldn't want to become human, even though, as Rutger Hauer famously said, it isn't easy being a dolphin.
Alias
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Alias »

Dolphin42 wrote:[Alias: I would dearly love to see a dolphin with his hand to his heart]
Good point. When I wrote that post I had genuinely forgotten that I am not actually a human but am an aquatic mammal. So striving to become human would actually not be entirely nonsensical.
Opposable-thumb envy. Happens in lots of species. It would be just such a kick to be holding the gun for a change!
Hang in there, bro!
(Stay clear of Japan)
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire
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Sy Borg
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Sy Borg »

-1- wrote:
Greta wrote:When I see people getting worked up about gays and transgenders when they clearly know nothing about it I think of Shakespeare's quote ""The lady doth protest too much, methinks". Replace "lady" with many of those with intense anti views.


I thought the connotation was something entirely different. Denying something very much known, in fact, participating in a guilty pleasure, which is unbecoming of a society lady.
I was thinking of these kinds of people: 16 Antigay Leaders Exposed as Gay or Bi advocate.com/politics/politicians/2015/ ... -gay-or-bi
-1- wrote:I can only infer that you are multinational soccer star drawing a multibillion-Euro salary from a third-world women's soccer team, and intent on using only transgendered personal pronouns in your everyday speech.

Das Lady doth protest too much.
Guilty as charged! Alas, I am currently laid up with a foot injury that cannot be cured because I live in a primitive backwater (aka Australia) and therefore pretending to philosophise while waiting for the injury to heal.

When it comes to pronouns it mildly irritates me that "it" is considered lesser than male or female. If any kind of God exists it must logically be an "it" despite the wishful thinking of wannabe patriarchs. The Earth is an "it". So is the biosphere. Each includes and, thus, is greater than humanity.

Otherwise, my care about pronouns isn't great, other than being happy to refer to people by their preferred pronoun. I don't want to get in people's faces, causing upset, imposing my personal ideologies on to their identities, or trying to question or apply pressure to their identities. Why would people want to do that to other human beings who have never done them harm? It's all rather sad IMO.

BTW, this does not make me any kind of good person. My motivations are selfish: I simply feel happier and healthier when I am being kind and I believe that everyone can easily access this simple and obvious principle. Alas, there's a seductive buzz to be had from being an a-hole and it can be hard to quit.
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

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gerta wrote:Otherwise, my care about pronouns isn't great, other than being happy to refer to people by their preferred pronoun. I don't want to get in people's faces, causing upset, imposing my personal ideologies on to their identities, or trying to question or apply pressure to their identities. Why would people want to do that to other human beings who have never done them harm? It's all rather sad IMO.

BTW, this does not make me any kind of good person. My motivations are selfish: I simply feel happier and healthier when I am being kind and I believe that everyone can easily access this simple and obvious principle. Alas, there's a seductive buzz to be had from being an a-hole and it can be hard to quit.
This somehow ties in with my view of how moral code works in humans: something that is unpleasant has seeds of pleasantness to it nevertheless, which make it tolerable or preferable to do over not doing it.

A bit similar to the day when I first returned a wallet full of money to its rightful owner. Immediately I had an inexplicable rush. The person did not even show any appreciation or gratitude, and i still got a rush. I think she was not responsive because she was in shock for A. getting the wallet returned an for B. suddenly realizing the repercussions if it hadn't been returned.
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LuckyR
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by LuckyR »

Lark_Truth wrote:The current liberal society of the USA is to tolerate the views and opinions of others. For instance: gays, transgenders, and various other things which I cannot name off of the top of my head. Of course, liberals don't seem to want to tolerate the new President Trump (I can't say that I blame them, but it is getting to be a little ridiculous).
So is there a limit to how much we should tolerate. Is a lot of tolerance too much? Are we in the USA tolerating to much?
In order to answer your question answer this: what happens to those that you do not tolerate? Lock them in prison, Fine them, Shun them, Discriminate against them, talk badly about them behind their backs, to their faces? What?
"As usual... it depends."
deronmoped
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by deronmoped »

It all depends on what society wants to accept or tolerate. This really depends on the state of society. Take abortion as a example. Something so horrible, yet tolerated. Would abortion be tolerated if society were on the verge of extinction, due to lack of replacement? Or would society tolerate "forcing" women to have the child, because of the state it is in?

It's the same thing with being liberal or conservative. People are allowed to be more liberal when there is excess (overabundance) in society. Life or Mother Nature is the ultimate decider on how society functions. Get too far out of wack and society will not survive. Society will be driven to be more conservative in order to survive.
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by -1- »

deronmoped wrote:It all depends on what society wants to accept or tolerate. This really depends on the state of society. Take abortion as a example. Something so horrible, yet tolerated.
Birth is a hundred, a thousand times worse than abortion.

You have to live through them both to appreciate that.

So this is not a good example, because some people think it's horrible, and some people think of it as "meh".

Pick something else, such as female circumcision at teen age, or 4-hour calculus exams, or public beheadings. Something more generally disdained by the public.
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Lark_Truth
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Lark_Truth »

How about tolerance of bad government action?
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Rr6
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Rr6 »

Universe/God is very tolerant--- allowing ---even tho there exist a finite set of cosmic laws/principles that are evidence of occupied space limits.

Republicans would like to do away with government.

Some would like to do away with religion.

The way some men and women talk, you would think one sex would like to do away with the other sex.

Universe is very diverse and sex is reason for bio-diversity.

Everything in moderation ergo cosmic laws/principles complement a Universe and biology that is very diverse. Yay!

All polyhedra are derivatives of primary set of three:

tetra{4}hedron = 3-fold symmetry---12 surface angles

cubo{6}-octa{8}hedron = 4-fold symmetry---12 vertexes{ Fullers operating system of Universe }

icosa{2}hedron = 5-fold symmetry---12 vertexes

Three-ness is primary cosmic set. Space ( ) - Time ^v - Space )(

Male represented by Y ergo *Y* open triangle set with twoness on outside{ testes }

Female represented by closed triangle /\ or as \**/ and twoness on inside( ovaries )

Freedom of speech is about tolerance, as long as it is not threat. If I recall correctly.

If we do not have government would there be more or less speech tolerated?

It depends on how society evolves and just as governments vary so could a society without governements evolve in various ways.

Fuller states in his 169 book Utopia or Oblivion, all governments could end and humanity would get along just fine. Would they? Most republican would like to find out. The pinnacle of this revolution is trump and his primary advisor Bannon and that whole nutcase conspiracy crowd.

I cannot imagine a society that does not have a system of governance.

r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse
Nick_A
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Nick_A »

How often are women both desirable and intolerable for men at the same time? How are men supposed to deal with the approach avoidance conflict that is natural to arise? No amount of tolerance is sufficient. God must be female. No male would have allowed this.
Man would like to be an egoist and cannot. This is the most striking characteristic of his wretchedness and the source of his greatness." Simone Weil....Gravity and Grace
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Rr6
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Re: Too Much Tolerance?

Post by Rr6 »

Nick_A--How often are women both desirable and intolerable for men at the same time?
And vice versa to whatever degree. At optimum men and women are mentally operating at 90 degrees to each other, not diametric opposite of 180 degrees.
How are men supposed to deal with the approach avoidance conflict that is natural to arise?
Male is representative of time woman is manager of time. imho

At 27 I jumped in with both feet i.e. I g moved in with her and then shortly afterwards got married. Our special-case set of circumstances have been conducive to staying together. albeit not easy at times over the years.
No amount of tolerance is sufficient. God must be female. No male would have allowed this.
The semi-unstable, 4-fold Vector Equilibrium aka the cubo{6}-octa{8}hedron is 12-around-1{ nuclear } vertexial events of equanimity. Fuller says that is the Operating System of Universe. Since it has the nuclear event I say it represents cosmic pregnancy of female{ Xx } cosmos.

The structurally stable, 5-fold icosa{20}hedron also has the same 12 events without internal equanimity and represents non-pregnant cosmic female{ Xx } cosmos.

Scenario #1--What pops out is;
the less complex 4-fold octa{8}hedron representative of female{ Xx }, and,
....large around hips and middle area and women tend to access both hemis-spheres of brain more...............

the less complex 3-fold tetra{4}hedron representative of male{ Xy }
...more pointed sharp angular vertexes/corners and tend toward one or other hemi-sphere of brain than other......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alternative scenario #2

truncation of more stable cosmic icosahedron as female{ Xx } derives the unstable--- because no triangles ---,pentagonal dodecahedron ergo less stable male{ Xy }.

Are men generally more unstable than women? Men tend more commonly to take actions that are detrimental to self and others.

r6
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