What is the most valuable thing in your life?

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Lark_Truth
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Lark_Truth »

Woodart wrote:What I mean or what I ask - is there a thing which surpasses everything else in your existence in value? I say it is consciousness because everything is contained in it. All other values are a subset. Now a person could argue that life is the greatest value, but we need consciousness in order to appreciate life. This is the existential principle – existence precedes essence.
I can definitely see consciousness as something valuable in our lives, Woodart, that is a very deep and astute answer and the explanation that you give is very finely tuned.
I'd like to add another thing that I value very highly in my life, a compliment to consciousness if you will, for without consciousness we wouldn't be truly alive, but without its compliment, we wouldn't be able to do anything except just be. It is a power that controls us and gives us true God-like semblance. Consciousness is will and thought, but this power is the employment of will and thought.
Agency, the power of choice.
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Woodart
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Woodart »

Lark_Truth wrote: I'd like to add another thing that I value very highly in my life, a compliment to consciousness if you will, for without consciousness we wouldn't be truly alive, but without its compliment, we wouldn't be able to do anything except just be. It is a power that controls us and gives us true God-like semblance. Consciousness is will and thought, but this power is the employment of will and thought.
Agency, the power of choice.
Lark – I am not quite sure of what you mean by “a power that controls us and gives us true God-like semblance”. Do you mean that consciousness is controlled by another force or power? Are you injecting the argument of determinism? I think free will and determinism are very relevant to consciousness. I think each of us needs to address these concepts in order to have a consistent philosophy. I am currently talking about this in another thread:

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... f=1&t=8950

I am happy to explore your concept of “a power that controls us”, but you would need to clarify it so we can parse it better.

-- Updated March 29th, 2017, 10:15 am to add the following --

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... &start=285
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Atreyu
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Atreyu »

What I value most in life is independence (freedom?), particularly from other people...
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Sy Borg »

Mine are very generic. Being alive and having the capacity to think and act, along with the health, wealth and happiness of me and mine.
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Woodart »

Rr6 wrote: Not at all and I've laid it out clearly in various threads as The Cosmic Hierarchy: "U"niverse/"G"od. None have offered any rational, logical common sense that adds to or invalidate the 7 or more givens in my cosmic hierarchy outline/list.


123, ABC thats how easy Universe can be..sung to M. jackson and Jackson 5 tune.
Rr6 – I find your language very confusing. I am not sure what it is you are trying to say. It is not just here in this post, but almost every post I read from you. You have created a subset of the English language. It seems you are asking or begging readers to go down your “rabbit hole” and discover what you mean. You have over 1000 posts in the 2 years you have been here. I am new here, but the few of your posts I have encountered seem to be received with mostly neglect - some as a joke and some with hostility. The apathy to what you write is clearly stated by you in the above quote. None of those types of responses seem desirable.

I am not trying to hurt your feelings and I think you are an intelligent person, but a different approach seems in order.

Specifically I said the “defining of God is difficult, if not impossible”. Do you mean it is easy in your “Cosmic Hierarchy”? If that is so, I find your supposed explanation confusing, presumptuous – gibberish. And then at the end of many of your posts you ask us to sing – ABC – 123…. I find that insulting. You are spending a lot of time – not being heard.

Additionally it seems that you inject your thoughts in an attempt to highjack threads. This is my thread and I intended it to focus on understanding consciousness. If you want to participate meaningfully, please do with clarity, not cryptically. Again I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but I think a reality check is in order.

I know you are a fan of Buckminster Fuller, so I looked him up on Wikipedia. He was a great man – very creative – accomplished and world renowned. He used very colorful language and geometric diagrams to express thoughts, but he also explained his concepts clearly in plain English. He was a great builder and inventor and because he was a builder – he was practical. His practicality came vividly to me in the following two sentences from Wikipedia:

"In public appearances, Fuller always wore dark-colored suits, appearing like "an alert little clergyman". Previously, he had experimented with unconventional clothing immediately after his 1927 epiphany, but found that breaking social fashion customs made others devalue or dismiss his ideas."

So be practical like Bucky and clearly present yourself. I think you will find better results. Best regards.
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Rr6
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Rr6 »

Woodart---Rr6 – I find your language very confusing. I am not sure what it is you are trying to say.
Most of my words are in English dictionary, and when prepared to expand your mind and see some rational, logical common sense truths then address any specific comments by me that have sincere desire to have clarified.

It is not just here in this post, but almost every post I read from you. You have created a subset of the English language. It seems you are asking or begging readers to go down your “rabbit hole” and discover what you mean.
IF you think a hierarchy is a "rabbit hole" then really do not understand what a hierarchy/outline/lists is designed to present. I recommend you have
You have over 1000 posts in the 2 years you have been here. I am new here, but the few of your posts I have encountered seem to be received with mostly neglect - some as a joke and some with hostility. The apathy to what you write is clearly stated by you in the above quote. None of those types of responses seem desirable.


Each has a choice and your currently making yours and it appears similar to others.
I am not trying to hurt your feelings and I think you are an intelligent person, but a different approach seems in order.
Please share when you want to have a rational, logical common sense discussion of the specifics of my cosmic hierachy or other.
Specifically I said the “defining of God is difficult, if not impossible”. Do you mean it is easy in your “Cosmic Hierarchy”?
Where is my actual statements? Like many others, you not supplying specific statement by me that you want to dig into. Supply my comments as stated is the only fair place to begin, and your not beginning that way. Ive been in this type of rabbit hole with many others for many years. You approach is not new to me.
If that is so, I find your supposed explanation confusing, presumptuous – gibberish. And then at the end of many of your posts you ask us to sing – ABC – 123…. I find that insulting. You are spending a lot of time – not being heard.
If and when you want to sincere conversation with me, then begin by supplying actual comments. I don't think you have any such desire.
Additionally it seems that you inject your thoughts in an attempt to highjack threads. This is my thread and I intended it to focus on understanding consciousness. If you want to participate meaningfully, please do with clarity, not cryptically. Again I am not trying to hurt your feelings, but I think a reality check is in order.
Ditto my above any time you want to disscuss reality check specifics. You have not done that and I doubt you ever will.
I know you are a fan of Buckminster Fuller, so I looked him up on Wikipedia. He was a great man – very creative – accomplished and world renowned. He used very colorful language and geometric diagrams to express thoughts, but he also explained his concepts clearly in plain English.


concepts clearly in plain English Huh? I think you may be the one who needs a reality check dude.

Ive rarely heard anyone say that about fullers writings. Ive read most of his books and know that many people just do not have the patience to read Fullers writings. His book Spaceship Earth{ 1962 ?} and Grunch of Giants{ 1980? } were in top ten sellers in China at one time. Or so Ive read
Best regards.
Best regards? I don't see much in your above that add validity to those comments. Please share when you want to have a rational, logical common sense conversation regarding my comments as specifically stated. Simple for those who put their ego aside and a sincere desire to expand their mind. You don't appear chose to do either.

It is true that 123, ABC thats how easy the the Universe can be and Ive laid that out very clearly in my cosmic hierarchy.

The truth exists for those who seek it, those who don't and those who scoff at it. imho

r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Sy Borg »

Rr6 wrote:Not at all and I've laid it out clearly in various threads as The Cosmic Hierarchy: "U"niverse/"G"od.
What does the eccentric use of bolding and use of quotes to separate the words mean?

What are you trying to get across? You have never explained your approach to language structure or punctuation.
Pelegrin_1
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 »

I mentioned earlier, 'independence of thought', but I remember that there is another, perhaps even more important thing that I value in my life (as an individual, because obviously I value my loved ones) and that is 'peace of mind', 'inner harmony'. In fact, I wonder what could be more important than that.
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Woodart »

Atreyu wrote:What I value most in life is independence (freedom?), particularly from other people...
Where does your independence - freedom exist? In your mind's eye or perhaps your freedom is independent of consciousness?

Greta wrote:Mine are very generic. Being alive and having the capacity to think and act, along with the health, wealth and happiness of me and mine.
How do you know you are alive – do you think about it, sense it? How do you experience your health, wealth and happiness? Where is “me”? Please tell me how you know about these most valuable things.

Pelegrin_1 wrote:I mentioned earlier, 'independence of thought', but I remember that there is another, perhaps even more important thing that I value in my life (as an individual, because obviously I value my loved ones) and that is 'peace of mind', 'inner harmony'. In fact, I wonder what could be more important than that.
Where do you experience love, is it separate from your peace of mind and inner harmony? Are your thoughts independent of your consciousness?
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Sy Borg
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Sy Borg »

Woodart wrote:
Greta wrote:Mine are very generic. Being alive and having the capacity to think and act, along with the health, wealth and happiness of me and mine.
How do you know you are alive – do you think about it, sense it? How do you experience your health, wealth and happiness? Where is “me”? Please tell me how you know about these most valuable things.
I was going to give you some very obvious answers, relativities between myself ATM and the dead, the very ill and the poor. However, I suspect that would be missing a point you are hoping to make.
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by -1- »

Greta wrote: I was going to give you some very obvious answers, relativities between myself ATM and the dead, the very ill and the poor. However, I suspect that would be missing a point you are hoping to make.
I think woodart's question was valid. Seeing your are a self-confessed ATM.

Your presence may even settle the argument in a different thread, "Can computers (automated teller machines, for instance), have consciousness of mind?"


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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Steve3007 »

I guess the most valuable thing in the life of an ATM is deep inside itself. But it's willing to share some of it with you if you know how to communicate with it properly. Maybe there's a lesson for us all there?
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by -1- »

Steve3007 wrote:I guess the most valuable thing in the life of an ATM is deep inside itself. But it's willing to share some of it with you if you know how to communicate with it properly. Maybe there's a lesson for us all there?
You're right. ATMs are willing and ready to enrich your life with what's most valued by them and about them, and this they do, like you said, when you entice them to do so with proper communication.

Much like dogs, cats, women/men, children.

Greta... you're alive. QED.


Some would call extraction of money via efficient sweet-talk a manipulation... that's just a bitter term for "motivating" something to act. It's one of the irregular verbs: I motivate; you make; he / she /it manipulates.

-- Updated 2017 March 30th, 5:46 am to add the following --
-1- wrote:I contest, however, that the word "independent" is the correct word to use by its original and prevalent meaning.
[/quote]
Pelegrin_1 wrote: I'm curious as to whether there is an unintended error in the part of bolded.
Wow. You can't take the bolded part without the unbolded part, because the unbolded part negates the entire bolded part.

So I am completely at odds in trying to decipher, what your curiosity is about: that the word "independent" is correct, or that the word "independent" is incorrect. I have no clue what you consider to be a typo or else uninended error. I meant error-free the entire sentence, including the "I contest" part.
Pelegrin_1 wrote: But now I'd like to ask if you can give me an example of something related to an individual human existence that could rightly be described with the word "independent", in your opinion.
Good question!! Ultimately, no person and no thing is independent of anything else. V.o. the butterfly-effect.

However, when the word "independent" is used with thinking, then it usually means "opposing", "different", "counter". For instance, the first atheists were considered independent thinkers of the church. But they were not independent; they were very much dependent on the church for their thoughts. This is a stronger bond than mere "everything connects with everything." There was defiance, opposition, in-your-face heresy. THIS is not independent in my view.

An independent thinker is one who develops his thoughts on his own, without ANY influences form other thought-provokers. This may happen on a deserted island. The bloke grows up there, alone, without any human contact he can remember consciously or subconsciously. All his thought will be independent, EVEN IF THEY ARE IDENTICAL TO THE THOUGHTS OF OTHER HUMANS.

However, if a guy lives in an environment where every woman is veiled, but he insists the veils be removed, he is not independent; his thoughts have been developed and his reasons developed due EXACTLY and very CLOSELY to the societal influences. This you'd call independent (that he wants to remove the veils, while nobody else thought of it or suggested it); I say that's not independent, it's different.

I think the entire culture has taken on this anomaly of bastardizing the meaning of the word "independent". They could have said "uninstructed", "different", "new", and all those would have been a better match to what people call "independent" when they speak of thought.
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Woodart
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Woodart »

Greta wrote: I was going to give you some very obvious answers, relativities between myself ATM and the dead, the very ill and the poor. However, I suspect that would be missing a point you are hoping to make.
What is an ATM? What is the point I am trying to make and how does it relate to ATM?
Pelegrin_1
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Re: What is the most valuable thing in your life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 »

-1- wrote:However, when the word "independent" is used with thinking, then it usually means "opposing", "different", "counter". For instance, the first atheists were considered independent thinkers of the church. But they were not independent; they were very much dependent on the church for their thoughts. This is a stronger bond than mere "everything connects with everything." There was defiance, opposition, in-your-face heresy. THIS is not independent in my view.

An independent thinker is one who develops his thoughts on his own, without ANY influences form other thought-provokers. This may happen on a deserted island. The bloke grows up there, alone, without any human contact he can remember consciously or subconsciously. All his thought will be independent, EVEN IF THEY ARE IDENTICAL TO THE THOUGHTS OF OTHER HUMANS.

However, if a guy lives in an environment where every woman is veiled, but he insists the veils be removed, he is not independent; his thoughts have been developed and his reasons developed due EXACTLY and very CLOSELY to the societal influences. This you'd call independent (that he wants to remove the veils, while nobody else thought of it or suggested it); I say that's not independent, it's different.

I think the entire culture has taken on this anomaly of bastardizing the meaning of the word "independent". They could have said "uninstructed", "different", "new", and all those would have been a better match to what people call "independent" when they speak of thought.
I think that we've really developed a side topic here. Nevertheless, to continue, I would say that there are a variety of contexts to which the word "independent" could apply, and each one with its distinct formation of how the word independent is applied. You are apparently focused on the single idea of independence as not having any connection at all with anything else, being totally in isolation, apart. Whereas my idea of the word, when I used it here, was with respect to not belonging to something else or some other group, not being influenced or affected by outside ideas, and also not merely acting or thinking in contradiction to surrounding ideas, but rather, independently formulating an idea based merely on one's process of thought that came up with an idea. Whether we're on a desert island or in the midst of a sea of humanity, those are still the environmental conditions from which we are able, though not necessarily do we do, form independent thought. Other "thoughts" may exist around us, in our environment, but if we have thoughts that are not influenced by those surrounding thoughts, if they are "new", as you say, or at least new for us and came from within us, then they are our own original and independent thoughts (though of course others, whose thoughts we personally never came into contact with, may very well hold similar thoughts to our own). One's thoughts, therefore, could be independent from the influence of others.
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