What is the most valuable thing in your life?

[Steve3007]

Woodart:

What is an ATM? What is the point I am trying to make and how does it relate to ATM?

Greta (I think) meant it as an abbreviation of "At The Moment". -1- pretended (for comic effect) to think she meant it as an abreviation of "Automatic Teller Machine" in order make a lame joke. I decided to pick up that lame joke and run with it. The result was a small amount of confusion.

I hope that clears it up and allows you to continue with the more serious business of the thread.

[Atreyu]

What I value most in life is independence (freedom?), particularly from other people...

Where does your independence - freedom exist? In your mind's eye or perhaps your freedom is independent of consciousness?

One must be conscious to be free. There is no freedom for a machine...

[Woodart]

One must be conscious to be free. There is no freedom for a machine...

The point I was making to you and others, is that consciousness holds your freedom, independence, happiness, love, hate – your entire life - whatever you do or think or feel is in consciousness. We are prisoners of consciousness. Consciousness is like minestrone soup – whatever you put in it – that’s what it is.

[Sy Borg]

What is an ATM? What is the point I am trying to make and how does it relate to ATM?

I was going to give you some very obvious answers, relativities between myself ATM and the dead, the very ill and the poor. However, I suspect that would be missing a point you are hoping to make.

I think woodart's question was valid. Seeing your are a self-confessed ATM.

Your presence may even settle the argument in a different thread, "Can computers (automated teller machines, for instance), have consciousness of mind?"

(-:

I guess the most valuable thing in the life of an ATM is deep inside itself. But it's willing to share some of it with you if you know how to communicate with it properly. Maybe there's a lesson for us all there?

My fingers and the rest of me are severely arthritic and sometimes I prefer to use abbreviations to save on the pain. Each pain-soaked letter I type is a measure of my commitment to the discussion of topics of interest. However, since you guys think it important for me to typing complete phrases I shall endure the agonies in my left hand especially for those of you wedded to formal writing styles!

I was merely pointing out that I differ from the dead "at the moment", yes? I needed to qualify the statement because we all too will soon be like the dead, just not quite yet (touch wood) ... unless one contracts terminal arthritis from satisfying the demands of forum members, of course ...

;)

-- Updated 30 Mar 2017, 18:55 to add the following --

How do you know you are alive – do you think about it, sense it? How do you experience your health, wealth and happiness? Where is “me”? Please tell me how you know about these most valuable things.

I was going to give you some very obvious answers, relativities between myself ATM and the dead, the very ill and the poor. However, I suspect that would be missing a point you are hoping to make.

What is the point I am trying to make... ?

I don't know, Wood. My post was an invitation for you to tell me.

[-1-]

my idea of the word [independent], when I used it here, was with respect to not belonging to something else or some other group, not being influenced or affected by outside ideas

You may be right about a particular thought of yours here. But I oppose the usage of "independent" thinking when one uses it to show he or she is a maverick. A maverick can be developed by DEPENDENT thoughts, and when you oppose a though (such as religionism) you are not independent of it. Freemasons have been proud of being independent, but their dogma is very dependent on what they are fighting against.

This whole thing is impossible to explain to English speaking people, because they have been so brain washed to accept that "different" means "independent" in modes and topics of thinking. While independent thought can be developed, most people who call their thoughts independent vis-a-vis a different movement, are dependent on that movement they oppose for their own thoughts, and therefore their word choice makes me sick.

-- Updated 2017 March 31st, 1:32 am to add the following --

My fingers and the rest of me are severely arthritic and sometimes I prefer to use abbreviations to save on the pain. Each pain-soaked letter I type is a measure of my commitment to the discussion of topics of interest. However, since you guys think it important for me to typing complete phrases I shall endure the agonies in my left hand especially for those of you wedded to formal writing styles!

Dear Greta, I feel for you, for I have advanced osteoarthritis myself.

May I suggest that you explore the "dictate to text" feature of Windows? It's available in Windows 10 and 7, (nine and eight hadn't got it *) and it's really useful for those, who can speak with an Amy accent. I speak with a thick, thick, thick foreign accent, and I could never get Windows to understand me.

I was planning to use it and to learn how to "read" the screen with Windows reading it up for me, but I abandoned that project too, as it was incredibly frustrating.


(* Why did six weep? 7, 8, 9.)

-- Updated 2017 March 31st, 1:37 am to add the following --

Furthermore, Greta, please consider investing in buying and learning to use a court reporters' type of stenograph machine. It uses way fewer keystrokes to type anything than a computer. It communicates in syllables, not in individual characters. It's great for those who want to save time on the long run by saving keystrokes. It does take quite a skill to use one, however, and it does take time to learn how to operate one. Plus they are expensive.

[Woodart]

My fingers and the rest of me are severely arthritic and sometimes I prefer to use abbreviations to save on the pain. Each pain-soaked letter I type is a measure of my commitment to the discussion of topics of interest. However, since you guys think it important for me to typing complete phrases I shall endure the agonies in my left hand especially for those of you wedded to formal writing styles!

Greta - I feel for you both literally and figuratively. Getting old and worn out is a lot of fun. “At the moment” my knees are killing me – my cartilage and meniscus are gone. I never thought I would get old. I guess I always entertained some fantasy that things were going to be fine for me. Funny, but we adjust to whatever "stuff" comes our way. Life has a nasty habit of making itself real.

So, part of my trick is to spin ideas in my head and try to figure out puzzles. I try different pieces in different places to see if the picture works. The idea of a picture is what philosophy is all about. It is as if each moment is a picture, but the present moment also can contain pictures of the past and future. It can get complicated. And I always think I am special. Don’t we all think we are special?

Anyway, everything I think is in my consciousness. Everything I touch, smell, and hear – everything I experience - is in my mind’s eye. Greta, I now imagine you as this creaky old lady with a cane struggling, slowly, to make it to the computer keyboard to fire off another post. Is that about right? I am glad we have made it into each other’s consciousness. Isn’t a shared universe great? I just have one question – are you from this planet? Seriously – are you?

The reason I ask, is, because in reality we live in different universes. My reality is not the same as yours and vice versa. You could be a Martian masquerading as an Earthling. There is a lot of identity thief going around on the internet.

I am making a joke, but not all parts of it are absurd. We really do live in separate universes that we share. All of my perception is pictures, stories and whatnot. I am a prisoner of my own consciousness. We all are in solitary confinement collectively. This is my favorite prison – do I have a choice? How about you – are you jumping ship – staging a mutiny – prison break?

[Sy Borg]

I should have made the wink in my previous post more apparent. I'm not an Earthling, Wood, I'm an Australian and we tend to serve our humour up dry :) Please try not to say nice things to me - for whatever reason I don't tend to respond well to them :lol:

- 1 -, I can't speak 'Marikan with a straight face. I bought Dragon Naturally Speaking but Windows 10 has huge problems in recognising headphones. I spent hundreds for technicians to have my Win 10 machine do what my old Win 7 machine did effortlessly. Even now, Dragon won't work because, no matter how I adjust every volume control I can find, the software complains that it can't hear me unless I should monosyllables. Alas, in these days of corporate freedom and individual controls, there's not much you can do about it when you pay for dud products. With worsening manufacturing CQ via cheap labour in the developing world, buying a fully functioning device has become a lottery, as has getting a refund for suboptimal machines.

Anyway, everything I think is in my consciousness. Everything I touch, smell, and hear – everything I experience - is in my mind’s eye. Greta, I now imagine you as this creaky old lady with a cane struggling, slowly, to make it to the computer keyboard to fire off another post. Is that about right? I am glad we have made it into each other’s consciousness. Isn’t a shared universe great? I just have one question – are you from this planet? Seriously – are you?

The reason I ask, is, because in reality we live in different universes. My reality is not the same as yours and vice versa. You could be a Martian masquerading as an Earthling. There is a lot of identity thief going around on the internet.

I am making a joke, but not all parts of it are absurd. We really do live in separate universes that we share. All of my perception is pictures, stories and whatnot. I am a prisoner of my own consciousness. We all are in solitary confinement collectively. This is my favorite prison – do I have a choice? How about you – are you jumping ship – staging a mutiny – prison break?

The problem of other minds. I believe that traversing this hitherto unbridgeable gap will be the next great emergence, as significant as the emergence of matter, life, multicellular organisms or humanity itself. Humans have an advantage over other animals in that we, as you suggested, can mentally move around in time. However, we cannot do it in space - the mind that is where you are is, as you note, separate to the mind over here. How do they come together? Part communication. Part empathy. Part body language, if the distances aren't so great.

However, these are interim steps leading up to the eventual wireless networking of minds. While our organic brains can only process one perspective (our own) at a time, an advanced AI may have the capacity to comprehend patterns in processing the mental activity of multiple networked minds, distributing feedback to those parts like a brain, but at a far more advanced level.

What I value is being. I like being. As a child I didn't like being put to bed either. I am grateful that I exist, that I am human, that I was born into fortunate circumstances and generally lead a fortunate life. How many of my parents' eggs and sperm never made it? How many organisms spend their short lives always under threat of being ambushed and eaten? How many humans lead desperate lives? Amazing! What did I do to deserve such a (relative to the big picture) royal saloon through life? Bugger all, I expect :lol: One seed floats into the middle of a cow pat in a paddock. Another floats just fifty metres to the middle of a highway. Incomprehensible!

[Woodart]

I believe that traversing this hitherto unbridgeable gap will be the next great emergence

I certainly hope so; but I thought the next great emergence was the Messiah? Are you it? No you can’t be – your Australian – with your criminal past and all – it’s not possible. I think Trump might be Australian – he has the criminal part down really good.

You know as humans we always seem to want more quickly; we are never satisfied. We want some accident in a secret laboratory to mutate us into a superhero. Another scenario is a strike of lightening that transforms a brain into a super duper know it all. I hope we do emerge into something better than what we are now. In terms of evolution we are about “6 weeks” out of the cave – are we not? In another thread I talk about humans in 1000 years, a million or 10 billion years:

http://onlinephilosophyclub.com/forums/ ... &start=285

I hope you respond to that thread; I think it is relevant here. I hope that we do bridge the gap between different consciousness’s. Although I do worry about you injecting pornographic thoughts into my consciousness – we wouldn’t want that. Or worse – criminal thoughts – I am such a pure little flower.

What I value is being. I like being.

My point is everything we value in our being - life is held in consciousness. There is nothing more valuable than consciousness. Without consciousness what do you have to value? Anything?


P.S - reinstall windows 7

[Sy Borg]

I believe that traversing this hitherto unbridgeable gap will be the next great emergence

I certainly hope so

The problem of other minds stands out as an obvious issue in terms of survival. We appear to working towards it with ever improved communication networks, less interest in and respect for privacy issues, ever more intimate hardware, surely to be implanted in coming decades. Networked minds. But I imagine it would take a massive (definitely quantum) central processor to organise the thoughts into a group perspective.

In terms of evolution we are about “6 weeks” out of the cave – are we not?

Some of humanity might as well still be in the cave. The most advanced societies are still obviously immature in that the behaviour and attitudes of societies as a whole tend to be more childish than many of its mature denizens.

What I value is being. I like being.

My point is everything we value in our being - life is held in consciousness. There is nothing more valuable than consciousness. Without consciousness what do you have to value? Anything?

P.S - reinstall windows 7

The idea of reinstalling Windows 7 fills me with almost as much dread as the idea of reincarnation :lol:

Funny thing, I have never met anyone who would want to be reincarnated and battle through the whole journey again. Yet, while we are here, we don't want to go away. Many fear being extinguished in death, yet we crave being (somewhat) extinguished in sleep. So being extinguished is okay if we come back again, but not if coming back involves all the crap of childhood and teens :lol:

[-1-]

First time I heard someone fear reinstating an older version of windows because it makes them feel to be Shiva. I mean, the Hindu god of creation.

Now, that's complete Atheism. You are offered the job of God*, and your refuse, for that would be incompatible with your ethics and weltanschauung, which involves no god or gods whatsoever.

* But perhaps the refusal comes for a more mundane reason... I imagine you, Greta, are up to here with unpaid volunteer positions, so f that additional job, along with the glory, the adoration, the omnipotence. Tell them f the glory, the adoration, instead, you want some mullah. (m=Marikan for dough.) Then you'd consider filling this job vacancy. If not, give the stupid, thankless job to some developing-world keen and studious illiterari browner, and watch the QC nosedive like sh.

For the benefit of readers of more delicate constitution, "f" in the above script stands for "forget".

(Do I qualify, based on this, to become an Aussie?)

-- Updated 2017 April 1st, 3:15 am to add the following --

Funny thing, I have never met anyone who would want to be reincarnated

O, I often think about that. As long as I can come back as a German Sheppard or a Bald Eagle, I wouldn't mind.

I already qualify, in the nominative appearance department, for the eagle thing.

--

Yeah, right, I will probably come back as a tapeworm or as a Mad Cow disease protein segment, with my luck in the lotteries, anyhow.

-- Updated 2017 April 1st, 3:44 am to add the following --

If not, give the stupid, thankless job to some developing-world keen and studious illiterari browner, and watch the QC nosedive like sh.

NO disrespect meant to third world people. I made a typo of "illiterari" which ought to have read as "illiterati", a humorously meant sarcastic joke using a slightly altered form of the expression from that famous movie that criticised the RC church some years back.

Again, I wish to reiterate that I have the same respect for people from the third world as I have for people in the first and second ones. This was a humour-piece, not a hate-speech, if you want to know my intentions.

[Dissimulation]

Recognition and affirmation of my individuality and all the implications it may or may not express itself as.

[Sy Borg]

First time I heard someone fear reinstating an older version of windows because it makes them feel to be Shiva. I mean, the Hindu god of creation.

Now, that's complete Atheism. You are offered the job of God*, and your refuse, for that would be incompatible with your ethics and weltanschauung, which involves no god or gods whatsoever.

* But perhaps the refusal comes for a more mundane reason... I imagine you, Greta, are up to here with unpaid volunteer positions, so f that additional job, along with the glory, the adoration, the omnipotence. Tell them f the glory, the adoration, instead, you want some mullah. (m=Marikan for dough.) Then you'd consider filling this job vacancy. If not, give the stupid, thankless job to some developing-world keen and studious illiterari browner, and watch the QC nosedive like sh.

Gosh no. I only became a mod because I wanted to be able to edit my posts. I was originally going to donate to the site but the ecommerce app didn't work with my financial institution, so I took the next option :)

Your comment about atheism bent my head like a noodle, and thanks for "weltanschauung". I will use that!

[Maldoror]

Answering this question will also depend on whether you perceive it as a public question or a private one. For instance, like participants in studies who say the most important is sex and money and then with their friends say otherwise and perhaps something else entirely when they are alone.
The real question is: who is asking the question about what is the most valuable thing to you in life? Is he standing at a podium, wearing clothes, wearing glasses, is he gonna marry your sister? Does he have bad breath?
Moreover, who are you at the time this question is being asked of you? If you are no one can he/she possibly even answer this question?

[-1-]

Malodor, I, as an accountant, would say that my most valuable thing is money in the bank and cash at hand.

As a lover, my most valuable thing would be to make full Moon happen, without regard to the Moon's cosmological phases.

As a writer, my most valuable thing would be to get published. (Never happened.)

As a promiscuous, unscrupulous cad, who would sell his mother's gravestone in a drunken stupor to buy two tickets for the seventh horse on the next race, I would say my most valuable asset is honesty. Once I learned how to fake it well, the world became my oyster.

As a founder of a new religion, my most valuable asset would be the ability to always keep a straight face.

As a football team or hockey coach in the minor leagues, my most valuable asset would be the ability to scream expletives and dish out verbal abuse, while stating impossible goals, setting impossibly high standards, and expecting supernatural efforts from my players.

As a founder of a new political party, my most valuable asset would be the biggest mouth in the room.

As a forum user on a philosophy website, my valuablest thingy would of been a ability to write and think clear alot any more.