Truly, What Is Consciousness?

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Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#1  Postby TigerNinja » March 22nd, 2017, 3:06 pm

Consciousness supposedly runs through everything. It goes through everything and it is like electricity through all of the appliances in a house. It runs through everything through different 'escapes'. Sensation is often seen as some form of 'awareness' or a slight comprehension of the outside world. I beg to differ but still believe consciousness can be an object of supporting inanimate objects as having some form of reality to them, despite that not being the purpose of consciousness.

If you hit a rock, in my opinion, it will not be aware that it has been struck, as it has no appendages from a hub of neurological or even slightly intelligent behaviour. It is just a rock, although consciousness is an omnipresent thing so hypothetically, the atoms that respond could be reacting and therefore being aware to the extent of unintentional and instinctive reactivity. That would make consciousness reactivity, which is equal in all things. Mental reactivity is ineffective for stones and other things of similar description so it would only be appropriate that physical reactivity determines consciousness.

It can also be seen as awareness except it does not run through everything. Consciousness is limited to living things which, in being alive, has a conscious understanding that the world around in is in motion and is active aside from itself. This awareness of the world beyond its own self and body could be true consciousness. This would also give it life as it is able to perceive the world around it and respond accordingly so consciousness gives life and in doing so limits its own expanse to life.

What do you think consciousness is?
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Truly, What Is Consciousness?



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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#2  Postby MindfulMystic » April 8th, 2017, 7:03 pm

Consciousness is the awareness of self, being caught unaware...
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#3  Postby Belindi » April 9th, 2017, 2:07 am

MindfulMystic wrote:Consciousness is the awareness of self, being caught unaware...



What is self?

-- Updated April 9th, 2017, 2:09 am to add the following --

Belindi wrote:
MindfulMystic wrote:Consciousness is the awareness of self, being caught unaware...



What is self?



Cannot one unselfcounsciously be aware of things other than self?
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#4  Postby Consul » April 9th, 2017, 6:45 am

TigerNinja wrote:Consciousness supposedly runs through everything.


"Consciousness cannot be spread over the universe like a thin veneer of jam; there has to be a point where my consciousness ends and yours begins."

(Searle, John. “Can Information Theory Explain Consciousness?” New York Review of Books, January 10, 2013.)

-- Updated April 9th, 2017, 5:57 am to add the following --

MindfulMystic wrote:Consciousness is the awareness of self, being caught unaware...


Primary or first-order consciousness is one thing and higher-order or self-consciousness is another. First-order consciousness is phenomenal consciousness, and phenomenal consciousness is subjective experience. And the state of being a subject of experience, of having or undergoing experiences doesn't require or depend on mental, psychological self-awareness, self-knowledge, or self-perception. It is not the same as cognitive, introspective, or reflective awareness or consciousness of one's own mind or consciousness, of one's own mental or experiential states.

"Phenomenal consciousness is the current presence of subjective experiences, or the having of subjective experiences. An organism possesses phenomenal consciousness if there is any type of subjective experience currently present for it. The mere occurrence or presence of any experience is the necessary and minimally sufficient condition for phenomenal consciousness. For any entity to possess primary phenomenal consciousness only requires that there are at least some patterns—any patterns at all—of subjective experience present-for-it. It is purely about the having of any sorts of patterns of subjective experience, whether simple or complex, faint or vivid, meaningful or meaningless, fleeting or lingering."

(Revonsuo, Antti. Inner Presence: Consciousness as a Biological Phenomenon. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 2006. p. 37)
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#5  Postby Present awareness » April 9th, 2017, 10:50 am

There is only "one" consciousness, and right now, you are it. All mammals drawn from it, as we breath in and out. Countless billions of animals, including humans are connected by this constant breathing in and out. Those whom die, leave it behind for those whom live.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#6  Postby Woodart » April 9th, 2017, 3:04 pm

Present awareness wrote:There is only "one" consciousness, and right now, you are it. All mammals drawn from it, as we breath in and out. Countless billions of animals, including humans are connected by this constant breathing in and out. Those whom die, leave it behind for those whom live.


This is an interesting concept – one consciousness - kind of like there is only one atmosphere that we all share. Even fish in water and microorganisms in the ground are part of our atmosphere. So each individual consciousness is like a single fish in the larger ocean. We are all differentiated but connected by the medium which we all live – consciousness. I do not know if this is your original idea, but it seems very strong to me – cogent.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#7  Postby Present awareness » April 9th, 2017, 3:35 pm

Yes Woodart, you have the right idea!
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#8  Postby Woodart » April 9th, 2017, 3:46 pm

I think the idea of one consciousness seems reasonable. The one ocean of consciousness lives in the one entire universe. This idea merges the physical world with metaphysical world. We are each individual agents or ingredients in a big cosmic soup. This is a key recipe in the cookbook of God’s kitchen.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#9  Postby MindfulMystic » April 9th, 2017, 9:01 pm

Present awareness wrote:There is only "one" consciousness, and right now, you are it. All mammals drawn from it, as we breath in and out. Countless billions of animals, including humans are connected by this constant breathing in and out. Those whom die, leave it behind for those whom live.

I like the thought of my vantage point being sustained from when I am/was unaware, but think it a disadvantage of having consciousness when/or\where, I wasnt\nor/am unaware..."I", is conscioussness-out of unawareness( me). Consciousness is "me"(unconsciously )-unaware that "I"was/\/\am in a (k)not, coming out of "naught" that was/is-within unconscious awareness. So I guess the question is, "what did come into this life/death with? Is it unaware consciousness to leave us attaining unconscious awareness? Or was it unconscious awareness, that left us detaining unaware consciousness?

-- Updated April 9th, 2017, 9:49 pm to add the following --

Could consciousness-quite simply be "truth";unawareness becoming conscious of being aware? Or is consciousness"untruths"; awareness, coming to be conscious of not/naught?
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#10  Postby Belindi » April 10th, 2017, 2:55 am

Digestion is not a thing it's a process . Similarly consciousness is not a thing it's a process which brains are sometimes engaged in.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#11  Postby Greta » April 10th, 2017, 8:14 am

Our difficulties in understanding consciousness may be related to our similar difficulties with time and the possibility that the arrow of time is purely an observer effect. Einstein famously said that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a persistent illusion.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#12  Postby Spraticus » April 10th, 2017, 3:01 pm

Woodart wrote:
Present awareness wrote:There is only "one" consciousness, and right now, you are it. All mammals drawn from it, as we breath in and out. Countless billions of animals, including humans are connected by this constant breathing in and out. Those whom die, leave it behind for those whom live.


This is an interesting concept – one consciousness - kind of like there is only one atmosphere that we all share. Even fish in water and microorganisms in the ground are part of our atmosphere. So each individual consciousness is like a single fish in the larger ocean. We are all differentiated but connected by the medium which we all live – consciousness. I do not know if this is your original idea, but it seems very strong to me – cogent.


How would you test that idea?

-- Updated April 10th, 2017, 2:03 pm to add the following --

Woodart wrote:
Present awareness wrote:There is only "one" consciousness, and right now, you are it. All mammals drawn from it, as we breath in and out. Countless billions of animals, including humans are connected by this constant breathing in and out. Those whom die, leave it behind for those whom live.


This is an interesting concept – one consciousness - kind of like there is only one atmosphere that we all share. Even fish in water and microorganisms in the ground are part of our atmosphere. So each individual consciousness is like a single fish in the larger ocean. We are all differentiated but connected by the medium which we all live – consciousness. I do not know if this is your original idea, but it seems very strong to me – cogent.


How would you test that idea?

-- Updated April 10th, 2017, 2:05 pm to add the following --

Consul wrote:
TigerNinja wrote:Consciousness supposedly runs through everything.


"Consciousness cannot be spread over the universe like a thin veneer of jam; there has to be a point where my consciousness ends and yours begins."

(Searle, John. “Can Information Theory Explain Consciousness?” New York Review of Books, January 10, 2013.)

-- Updated April 9th, 2017, 5:57 am to add the following --

MindfulMystic wrote:Consciousness is the awareness of self, being caught unaware...


Primary or first-order consciousness is one thing and higher-order or self-consciousness is another. First-order consciousness is phenomenal consciousness, and phenomenal consciousness is subjective experience. And the state of being a subject of experience, of having or undergoing experiences doesn't require or depend on mental, psychological self-awareness, self-knowledge, or self-perception. It is not the same as cognitive, introspective, or reflective awareness or consciousness of one's own mind or consciousness, of one's own mental or experiential states.

"Phenomenal consciousness is the current presence of subjective experiences, or the having of subjective experiences. An organism possesses phenomenal consciousness if there is any type of subjective experience currently present for it. The mere occurrence or presence of any experience is the necessary and minimally sufficient condition for phenomenal consciousness. For any entity to possess primary phenomenal consciousness only requires that there are at least some patterns—any patterns at all—of subjective experience present-for-it. It is purely about the having of any sorts of patterns of subjective experience, whether simple or complex, faint or vivid, meaningful or meaningless, fleeting or lingering."

(Revonsuo, Antti. Inner Presence: Consciousness as a Biological Phenomenon. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 2006. p. 37)



Which leads to the question, what is subjective experience?
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#13  Postby Present awareness » April 10th, 2017, 3:38 pm

Since we are using consciousness to search for consciousness, it's a bit like getting into your car, to go look for your car.
It's just not possible to step outside of ourselves, because everywhere we go, THERE we are. We do not HAVE a consciousness, we ARE a consciousness. In the same way, we do not HAVE a body, we ARE a body. The idea of ownership is an artificial construct. The ego will attach itself to experiences, and construct a self image, based on impressions formed from those experiences.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#14  Postby Consul » April 10th, 2017, 4:31 pm

Spraticus wrote:Which leads to the question, what is subjective experience?


When asked "What is Jazz?", Louis Armstrong replied: "Man, if you have to ask, you'll never know!"

"The term 'experience' has no theoretical charge. It refers only to something with which every normal human being is profoundly familiar."

(Strawson, Galen. Mental Reality. 2nd ed. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press, 2009. p. 317)

Strawson is right. Your subjective experience at this moment is simply the sum total of your present sensations, emotions, and imaginations (including thoughts); and you cannot make me believe that you have no idea what I'm talking about, that you have no idea what it means and what it is like to sense, feel, imagine, or think something.

-- Updated April 10th, 2017, 3:40 pm to add the following --

Present awareness wrote:The idea of ownership is an artificial construct.


No, because experiences cannot be unowned: where there is experience, there must be a subject "owning" or having it; and the subject cannot itself be an experience, since experiences cannot be experiencers. Necessarily, experiences are experienced by nonexperiences. The subject of experience cannot itself be part of the content of its experience—only mental representations of the subject can (in the form of bodily sensations, mental images, or thoughts).
"We may philosophize well or ill, but we must philosophize." – Wilfrid Sellars
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Re: Truly, What Is Consciousness?

Post Number:#15  Postby Present awareness » April 10th, 2017, 5:33 pm

What you are saying, Consul, reminds me of the saying "I think, therefore I am". However, existence already IS, so it may be more accurate to say "I am, therefore, I think I am".

The experiencer and the experienced, are two sides of ONE coin. Dualism, is the grand illusion of abstract thinking. All thoughts are expressed in language and all language is dualistic, since sounds are used representing things which are not sounds. We may mentally divide our body into thousands of parts, and give them whatever names we choose, but in reality there is no such division. The present moment is right here, right now. To attempt to divide the present moment into time, works on a practical level, but no such division exists in reality. Regardless of what time you may think it is, it will always be NOW.
Even though you can see me, I might not be here.
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