Reality is a distraction

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Georgeanna
Posts: 436
Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Georgeanna »

Burning ghost wrote:It's a symptom Georgeanna.

it is not a Jungian quote, merely something that came to mind that I'd read of his about perspective and the self.

-- Updated November 28th, 2017, 5:58 am to add the following --

The symptom is the environmental meltdown btw. The cause has little to do with the physical burning of fossil fuels. The whole socio-political system is teetering and the cause it about to be "overcome".
You need to read what I write more closely and try to be less condescending in tone.
Thank you.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Steve3007 »

Jan;
The only thing that might save us is an immense popular reaction and there is no sign of that.
I don't think that will happen in "western" countries because popular reactions tend to be just that - reactive not proactive. Regarding our effect on the climate, a large proportion of the population don't even accept that there is likely to be a problem.

Popular movements tend to be reactions to things that everyone can clearly see.

-- Updated Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:10 am to add the following --

(Georgeanna's recent post has already covered most of what I said there.)
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Jan Sand »

In this discussion there is a persistent reference to pessimism and optimism as if an attitude could reverse obliteration. Is it possible to be positive over a climate change that has already destroyed an immense percentage of wild life? Can one be happy over the pollution and the inevitable rise in temperatures and destructions of ocean levels that are irreversible and forcing people to flee populated areas? Is it pessimism to accept that these are dangerous and likely to get worse? This is not attitude, this is real.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Steve3007 »

Jan:

I wouldn't conflate all these problems together though. The problem of climate change is different from the problem of the destruction of non-human life which is different again from the problem of nuclear weapons (although the first two are related to human population growth.)

-- Updated Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:14 am to add the following --
In this discussion there is a persistent reference to pessimism and optimism...
That's why I said earlier that, if possible, it's best to try to forget pessimism and optimism and simply see a set of problems and a set of potential solutions. Difficult to do in practice, of course.
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Jan Sand »

No, I'm sorry, the climate change is remarkably affecting the seasons and birds are migrating at the wrong times and food for these animals is ripening at the wrong times. Biological reports confirm this. It is all interconnected.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Steve3007 »

Ultimately, everything is interconnected. But we still have to try to break problems into manageable chunks and work on them separately.

For example, problems such as the killing off of non-human animals due to the destruction of their habitats due to large human populations needing land for agriculture, or due to poaching, are not directly connected to climate change. Finding alternatives to fossil fuels will not directly affect those problems.

Likewise, the geo-political reasons why nuclear weapons are a threat are not directly related to climate change.

There's a strong temptation (particularly in people who are philosophically minded) to make connections between diverse phenomena. In this case, this often seems to mean a strong temptation to see all of the world's ills as caused by a single thing, like cooperative greed or corrupt politicians, or whatever. It doesn't help. It usually just reduces into the general observation that the world is a terrible place and people are greedy, selfish and corrupt. Anyone can make that observation. People in pubs frequently do. It's much harder to answer the question "what specific actions should individual people take?" than to answer the question "if I ruled the world, how would I like it to be run?"

-- Updated Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:59 am to add the following --

I meant "cooperate" not "cooperative" there.

-- Updated Tue Nov 28, 2017 11:59 am to add the following --

Mis-spelled it again. Never mind. I'll give up there,
Jan Sand
Posts: 658
Joined: September 10th, 2017, 11:57 am

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Jan Sand »

No doubt the weapons problem is a separate one, though current and immensely dangerous. There is no possible way to examine it and be optimistic since the USA is enthusiastically putting aside about a trillion dollars to improve the thousands of nuclear weapons and make them acceptable for use. That alone can kill the planet.


The weather problems are coordinated and connected. The weather changes throws all synchronized animal behavior with food possibilities out of synchronization which is killing wildlife. The weather is heating up the world and creating frightfully violent hurricanes. The weather is warming the arctic and antarctic causing sea rise and slowing the Gulf stream that provides decent weather for European countries. The weather is warming the tundra and parts of Canada and Alaska freeing methane into the atmosphere which is many more times powerful than CO2 and greatly increasing global warming. The weather is dissolving CO2 into the oceans and acidifying them into carbolic acid which dissolves calcium carbide which forms the shells of much of ocean life thereby destroying much of sea life. The warming of the atmosphere is predicted in decades to increase temperatures within decades so that will make the planet's torrid zone uninhabitable. The weather patterns are changing so that huge areas of the planet such as the central USA and large parts of Asia will no longer receive enough water and will fail to be fertile. The weather is quickly melting much of the planet's glaciers which have provided water for farms for thousands of years. The weather has, in melting ice in the antarctic relieved the weight on land areas and shifted geological pressures to instigate earthquakes and volcanic eruptions in new areas elsewhere.

An unrelated problem which is also dire is the widespread use of insecticides which kills all types of beneficial insects, The death of bees and wasps is pandemic and agriculture of all sorts vitally needs these insects to fertilize plants that provide many types of foods. Honeybees are disappearing very quickly and nicotine insecticides are doing very peculiar things to bumblebees. Aside from fertilizing plants, insects provide food for birds and other animals and without them, the other animals are disappearing.

Beyond this, there are other problems for the world but if optimism can be generated out of these alone, I would be very interested in hearing about it.
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Reality is a distraction

Post by Steve3007 »

...Beyond this, there are other problems for the world but if optimism can be generated out of these alone, I would be very interested in hearing about it.
Yes, that is a pretty tough assignment. I suppose "cheer up, it might never happen" or "worse things happen at sea" won't cut it.
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