Are human beings insecure?

[Sy Borg]

Note the fear of mortality effects two levels, i.e. the conscious and unconscious [subliminal]. At the conscious level, humans has natural inhibitors to modulate the insecurity and its efficiency will depend on one's own nature.
But at the unconscious [subliminal] levels, the insecurity circuit is triggered at all times and the resultant manifest in all sorts of indirect impulses, such as angst, despairs, anxieties, etc. that drive the majority desperately to religions to seek security [soteriological salvation].

I am feeling a little insecure about what you wrote. I am not exactly sure what you wrote or what your point is. Are you saying that if a person is sweating we can scientifically determine – they are either working hard, nervous or both? Or that much of our insecurity is triggered by our imagination/delusions? OK, I can agree with these ideas. I like your point about subliminal insecurity, which I am sure is part of us all. I find your language and phrasing confusing. Is there a subliminal message in your post? If so, maybe you are saying you are smarter than us all. You may be right – maybe.

I think it's a solid observation, Woody. Basically Spec is saying that, no matter how under control our fear of death may seem at a conscious level, the mindless primal instinctive fear of death (which is common to all chordates) is always present.

Being ever present, that underlying primal fear of death influences us in many areas of life. It colours our every transaction, with each disadvantageous interaction bringing us a little closer to death, even infinitesimally so (obviously our instincts by definition are not reasonable or capable of sensible prioritising). If there is no immanent major threat then stimuli is passed to the cortex for further processing, ie. information processed instinctively is then processed consciously. We then consciously decide on the relative importance of stimuli and stress responses.

Basically, our senses and lower brain routinely serve up a constant array of stimuli to be anxious about to the conscious mind. Via the slower, but more detailed cortex, we process the information, filtering out most of the input as relatively unimportant and identifying potential threats that warrant conscious focus.


BTW, in an earlier post you noted that most people are cowards for avoiding thinking about death, or considering their own. I think about death a lot but I don't courageously face down death so much as as fixedly stare at it like a rabbit in headlights :)

[Woodart]

Being ever present, that underlying primal fear of death influences us in many areas of life. It colours our every transaction, with each disadvantageous interaction bringing us a little closer to death, even infinitesimally so (obviously our instincts by definition are not reasonable or capable of sensible prioritising).

<--------------------------------------->


BTW, in an earlier post you noted that most people are cowards for avoiding thinking about death, or considering their own. I think about death a lot but I don't courageously face down death so much as as fixedly stare at it like a rabbit in headlights

I agree Greta, death is always with us – whether we are aware of it or not. And it influences are every move – be it every so subtlety or not. And it is not just the death of our bodies that we are insecure about. It is also the death of our ideas, plans and most importantly our motivation. When we lose motivation for a passion or desire – something dies in us. This is a real fear for me, personally. I have left “things” slip in my life that really scares me to death. I think we are all cowards to varying degrees. I have not reached my true potential – not by a long shot – because I am a coward. On a good day I try and prop myself up by going through a list of my accomplishments. However, I could have done a lot more. Life is not a competition and I don’t see any value in comparing myself to others. I know what I am capable of – and – I know what I could have done. And I want to thank you for bringing out these depressed thoughts – I think I will go and eat another snickers.

[Nick_A]

……………………….The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy……………………………….

Well, I am not so sure we are thinking differently – or maybe we are. Remember what? Philosophy leads us to remember how to think, plan, scheme, calculate, contemplate, cogitate, construct, deliberate, ruminate, muse, meditate and/or consider. Philosophy has all these functions and more. Philosophy is the first science and the foundation of all others. It will never leave us as long as we have contemplative capabilities. As long as we have problems to solve, things to fix, places to go – hence insecurities – philosophy is our travel companion. Philosophy is the toolbox we use to work on our insecurities, allay our fears – calm our nerves. Everyone is a philosopher - whether they know it or not – most people are not very good at it. That’s why they go to church.

You keep describing experts. But what of those who are attracted to philosophy as the love of wisdom? Experts are good with facts but lack the human perspective in which facts can acquire “meaning.” The expert teaches as you describe. The teacher of wisdom who can really open the student to the depth of philosophy teaches in another. The expert teaches how to minimize insecurities. The teacher of wisdom teaches how to profit from what they reveal. Plato taught as a man of wisdom. The expert will frown upon this as avoiding facts allowing another to become an expert. The man of wisdom allows the seeker to remember what insecurities reveal. The expert just teaches how to forget and eliminate insecurities so a person can become a better creature of reaction in Plato's cave

"If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls; they will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only its semblance, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much, while for the most part they know nothing, and as men filled, not with wisdom, but with the conceit of wisdom, they will be a burden to their fellows." ― Plato, Phaedrus

[Spectrum]

However what is most critical is the subliminal stimuli that triggers the neural circuit of insecurity. This is the certainty of mortality that cause dissonance and is directly linked and triggers insecurity at all times subliminally.
Note the fear of mortality effects two levels, i.e. the conscious and unconscious [subliminal]. At the conscious level, humans has natural inhibitors to modulate the insecurity and its efficiency will depend on one's own nature.
But at the unconscious [subliminal] levels, the insecurity circuit is triggered at all times and the resultant manifest in all sorts of indirect impulses, such as angst, despairs, anxieties, etc. that drive the majority desperately to religions to seek security [soteriological salvation].

I am feeling a little insecure about what you wrote. I am not exactly sure what you wrote or what your point is. Are you saying that if a person is sweating we can scientifically determine – they are either working hard, nervous or both? Or that much of our insecurity is triggered by our imagination/delusions? OK, I can agree with these ideas. I like your point about subliminal insecurity, which I am sure is part of us all. I find your language and phrasing confusing. Is there a subliminal message in your post? If so, maybe you are saying you are smarter than us all. You may be right – maybe.

Note Greta's post which is a reflection of what I am trying to convey.

There is no subliminal message in my post.
What I am stating is fact based on empirical evidence.
Mortality is a certainty. How many human have you come across who has lived more than 100 or 150 years?

What I am proposing is it is about time humans face the fact and deal with it [rationally and with fool proof methods] and recognize it objectively rather than suppress it or deflect it [as many religions do] and allow it to surface as angst that lead to terrible evils and violence.

It is not something new as if I have discovered it, the Eastern religions has been facing and dealing with such a dilemma [mother of all human insecurity] for thousands of years.

[Woodart]

There is no subliminal message in my post.

As I have already stated, I don’t have any objections to what you said – it is how you said it. Your first post was difficult to glean exactly what you meant. Your next post was easily understood. Why do people obfuscate? There is something hidden. I think this is a rampant characteristic with philosophers. Why, because they are not sure of what they think or perhaps they want to intimidate or both. I find obfuscation presumptuous, and quite frankly – dishonest. I think obfuscation clearly reveals insecurity – so – I am pleased you displayed it.

It is my thesis here that we all have insecurity. It shows, when we are just not sure of what to say and/or how to say it. I am struggling right now to bring out an important point. The point is that there is a relationship between insecurity and passion. Insecurity drives us to be passionate. Insecurity helps us to formulate a position on what we do - and - how we do it. Passion has a positive correlation to insecurity. You made a good point about death and seeking salvation. The more one is insecure about death and afterlife – the more leverage a church has. Churches are in the business of fostering insecurity. So are philosophers. We use insecurity to weaken our opponent’s argument and strengthen our own.

There is a relationship between insecurity and passion. There is also a relationship between passion and honesty and its counterpart – dishonesty. Sometimes we are passionate in a noble and just way. Sometimes we are passionate in an ignoble and unjust way. Sometimes we are passionate with both characteristics. The Bards famous admonition "To thine own self be true," is always with us. It is hard for us all to look at our own dishonesty and/or hypocrisy. I think we all have it. It comes with our insecurity which breeds weakness. We play hide and seek with ourselves. It seems part of human nature is to hide from our own weakness. Why? Ask Trump, I am sure you will get an honest answer.

[Spectrum]

There is no subliminal message in my post.

As I have already stated, I don’t have any objections to what you said – it is how you said it. Your first post was difficult to glean exactly what you meant. Your next post was easily understood. Why do people obfuscate? There is something hidden. I think this is a rampant characteristic with philosophers. Why, because they are not sure of what they think or perhaps they want to intimidate or both. I find obfuscation presumptuous, and quite frankly – dishonest. I think obfuscation clearly reveals insecurity – so – I am pleased you displayed it.

You are accusing without evidence. As I had stated inherently there is potential insecurity in all humans, i.e. including me. What is philosophical is whether one is willing discuss it openly or not.
Those who has something to hide or want to deflect [subliminally or otherwise] from its reality and they are those who accuse others of being bigot, racist, islamophobic [e.g. Islamists and other religious fanatics] to shut others up instead of facing the discussion with proper arguments whenever the subject is brought up.

The more one is insecure about death and afterlife – the more leverage a church has. Churches are in the business of fostering insecurity. So are philosophers. We use insecurity to weaken our opponent’s argument and strengthen our own.

I disagree with your point re philosophers who deal with philosophy-proper. There are many types of so-called philosophies and philosophers with varying psychological profiles.

Philosophy-proper is about opening up issues and discussing it openly and supporting views with evidence and rationality. I am ready to dig into this or any issue to its deepest layers and is prepared to discuss anything on this issue. No intention to hide any thing.

Those who are in alignment with philosophy-proper [as defined] are not driven by the insecurity track but rather by empathy & compassion for the well being of humanity.

[Woodart]

You are accusing without evidence. As I had stated inherently there is potential insecurity in all humans, i.e. including me. What is philosophical is whether one is willing discuss it openly or not.

Spectrum – please do me a favor and reread your first post in this thread. Is it an easy read for you? I read it again and I still find it difficult to piece all your logic together. I can make sense of it – to a certain extent – but I find it very difficult. Now, I will admit I am not the sharpest tool in the shed. It seems overly complicated. I do not see any one idea that cannot be explained simply and clearly. Jamming many ideas together in short succession is intimidating – to me. It was and still is a confusing read – to me. I feel what you have to say – does not have to be so complex.

So, let me ask you – do you want your ideas to be heard? Is it important to have others feel comfortable with what you write? Or do you just write for yourself? Your first post makes me feel insecure. Do you care if other people can understand what you say?

Those who has something to hide or want to deflect [subliminally or otherwise] from its reality and they are those who accuse others of being bigot, racist, islamophobic [e.g. Islamists and other religious fanatics] to shut others up instead of facing the discussion with proper arguments whenever the subject is brought up.

I can see you are insecure now – but – I hope you can see that no one here has called you a bigot, racist or islamophobic. I did say you were dishonest because your language and phrasing was too complex – obfuscating. It is just my opinion. Now, perhaps I am just too stupid to understand your first post. OK, I can live with that, but what about you – do you think I can understand what you have to say - could you have stated things better?

I disagree with your point re philosophers who deal with philosophy-proper. There are many types of so-called philosophies and philosophers with varying psychological profiles.

Philosophy-proper is about opening up issues and discussing it openly and supporting views with evidence and rationality. I am ready to dig into this or any issue to its deepest layers and is prepared to discuss anything on this issue. No intention to hide any thing.

Those who are in alignment with philosophy-proper [as defined] are not driven by the insecurity track but rather by empathy & compassion for the well being of humanity.

Now, I am realizing for the first time that English is not your first language – am I correct? If this is the basis for our confusion, I beg your indulgence. However, you have a powerful command of the language. I do not wish to hurt your feelings – I just want to talk about insecurity. And I do respect your ideas – they are very strong.

I also believe the proper role of philosophy is to bring about the wellbeing of humanity – with empathy and compassion. We are driven by our fears and insecurities to find answers. Our insecurity excites our emotions. Our emotions define our passion. Passion is what drives our philosophical quest.

[Lucylu]

The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy

Bertrand Russell says that philosophy lies in between the known facts of science and the dogma of theology, and is therefore attacked on either side. He says that it is the study of, if not the answering of, life's 'insoluble' problems, and a critical part of our history and culture.

[Nick_A]

The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy

Bertrand Russell says that philosophy lies in between the known facts of science and the dogma of theology, and is therefore attacked on either side. He says that it is the study of, if not the answering of, life's 'insoluble' problems, and a critical part of our history and culture.

This is really the same idea. The questions of the heart cannot be answered through science or exoteric theology. Yet when consciously contemplated with impartially, we may remember objective truths that have been forgotten much to the annoyance of advocates of science and exoteric theology

[Sy Borg]

The function of philosophy in human life is to help Man remember. It has no other task. And anything that calls itself philosophy which does not serve this function is simply not philosophy

Bertrand Russell says that philosophy lies in between the known facts of science and the dogma of theology, and is therefore attacked on either side. He says that it is the study of, if not the answering of, life's 'insoluble' problems, and a critical part of our history and culture.

It seems to me that philosophy is the compartmentalisation of natural human impulses to explore and understand their reality. If the field of "philosophy" did not exist, people would do it anyway, starting with all the many thousands of maxims, snippets of knowledge gained through experience passed on to other generations so they may not suffer the same struggles to gain that particular piece of know-how.

I remember philosophising at times with friends even as a child. Nothing prodigious, of course, just reflecting on things that had happened or about to happen and trying to understand how it all worked. We naturally need to know what happens next in life, to understand the patterns of events around us so we can prepare and anticipate as much as is practicable.

Today these basic impulses have grown, refined and diversified into fields like science, philosophy, psychology, sociology, the arts and many and varied belief systems, each promising to be The One Way (and each is probably ideal for certain personality types at certain times of their lives).

[Spectrum]

Now, I am realizing for the first time that English is not your first language – am I correct? If this is the basis for our confusion, I beg your indulgence. However, you have a powerful command of the language. I do not wish to hurt your feelings – I just want to talk about insecurity. And I do respect your ideas – they are very strong.

You are right, English is not my mother tongue.
I am from the Eastern part of Asia.

[Lucylu]

You are right, English is not my mother tongue.
I am from the Eastern part of Asia.

I think your English is excellent Spectrum. Better than many English people I know. Bravo! Plus don't forget, semantics and communication are constant challenges for everyone- English and Americans are said to be 'divided by a common language'.

-- Updated May 15th, 2017, 9:54 am to add the following --

It seems to me everyone is insecure (stupid), but philosophers, are, more so. Why - because they question everything more than most.

I agree that philosophy makes us insecure, but also science. Anything in that range. I did consider doing philosophy at uni as the aura of intelligence and academic lifestyle appealed to me, but I just couldn't stand the feeling of living in that insecurity all the time; to have no hard ground to stand on, and nothing fixed to hold on to. No answers, just questions. I couldn't make that my work, only a sideline. I like to go back to the side of the pool and relax in the hard world of practicalities, to relax my brain and tell my insecure little self that its ok, 'just keep putting one foot in front of the other'.

Theology makes us feel all safe and lovely, even loved. As you said, this is because all the questions are answered and in the case of Christianity, the answer is love. The panacea for all ills.

On the other hand, when I try to get to grips with some of the newer aspects of science and think of the realities of all the atoms that make up my body, that I am not really the definite being that I feel I am at times, but just a flowing mass of atoms mingling with and at one with my environment and other people(!) then I really start feeling insecure. If we are all part of the same whole, am I really making any autonomous decisions? Its like a bad acid trip! Second guessing ourselves is important in philosophy or any real academic pursuit. This is why people who study for their Phd's generally have to face their own limitations and make their peace with it. That brings an intellectual security, in admitting that we don't have the full answer, only more questions.

Knowledge is fluid, not fixed. Everything is fluid, not fixed. I know you're not one for analogies but its about riding the wave, rather than trying to hold on to the ocean.

But it is important that we as humans are at least asking the questions. We hear young children testing their parent's patience by repeating 'why, but why?..why?' and it seems this curiosity is hard wired in to our genes.

Once you're not afraid of death, I expect, many other fears would evaporate.

Yes I agree. This speaks to what Spectrum was saying about subliminal fears. We are at the mercy of the elements but in the modern day with our temperature controlled environments and when we crack the energy and water crisis, we are sitting pretty. But death will come no matter what and it is a blessing in my mind. When our bodies are no longer fit for this world, hallelujah, there is an off switch!

Keeping people alive when their brain is rotting inside their head is ghastly and cruel. I hope that more and more, assisted suicides will be passed as law and we can finally tackle the taboo of death. The fear of it, the idea of a slow, painful, completely humiliating, helpless death is terrifying, but a quick, pain free death at the time of our choosing would be great. I plan to go to Dignitas in Switzerland if the time comes when I am terminally ill. Or by then it may be legal in the UK.

I'm happy to say I don't fear death, only dying.

-- Updated May 15th, 2017, 10:26 am to add the following --

Another issue in insecurity is the feeling that things could be changed for the better if only we could convince others. That adolescent idealism is a heady but ultimately insecure place. This forum has value for being a place in which we can talk and talk and realise that actually, we cant change people and that there will always be differences of opinion. That also brings a sense of security or dare I say maturity, when we can learn to let some things go, rather than keep fighting. But we have to go through the process to come out the other side. We have to learn some things by experience.

[Woodart]

Thinking about insecurity leads us to the certainty that we are next door to nothing. Our place in the universe is so small – it really – literally – defies the imagination. If you think in cosmic terms we are reduced to insignificance which is profoundly disturbing. I am not talking about you or me – what about this planet? This solar system is nothing in the scheme of things. Hell, our galaxy is nothing. The galaxy could blow up today and not even be noticed – maybe?

How important does that make you? All I want to say is that I drive a Tesla and live in a big house. And before we go any further I want you to know I have a PHD in scatology. I know my stuff. What? Get real – we delude ourselves with masks – costumes – pretention – deception – illusions of our importance.

What I am saying is that it is important to know how small we are. The realization of our insignificance helps us to appreciate what we do have – and how temporal we are. We are here and we are literally – ships in the night. We don’t know each other, but we bump into each other – here – and we talk. At least I can say how dumb I feel and small. I feel it is a blessing to come to grips with my little-ness. Because - I lie to myself constantly – about my significance. I am like the character Walter Mitty – living a dualistic life. Aren’t we all?

I want to be like Buddha – enlightened. I want the intellectual strength of 100 PHD’s – all in different fields. I want to be the Messiah and save the world. I want a bazillion dollars. And then reality sets in – and – here I am talking to you. Oh well, another fantasy shot to hell. It is important to know my place. What I am trying to say is that my insecurity grounds me – and – most importantly motivates me. Without insecurity we are not motivated to do anything – we need it! We should not hide from it – we should run to it. Insecurity is the wellspring from which our lives flow.

[Nick_A]

Thinking about insecurity leads us to the certainty that we are next door to nothing. Our place in the universe is so small – it really – literally – defies the imagination. If you think in cosmic terms we are reduced to insignificance which is profoundly disturbing. I am not talking about you or me – what about this planet? This solar system is nothing in the scheme of things. Hell, our galaxy is nothing. The galaxy could blow up today and not even be noticed – maybe?

How important does that make you? All I want to say is that I drive a Tesla and live in a big house. And before we go any further I want you to know I have a PHD in scatology. I know my stuff. What? Get real – we delude ourselves with masks – costumes – pretention – deception – illusions of our importance.

What I am saying is that it is important to know how small we are. The realization of our insignificance helps us to appreciate what we do have – and how temporal we are. We are here and we are literally – ships in the night. We don’t know each other, but we bump into each other – here – and we talk. At least I can say how dumb I feel and small. I feel it is a blessing to come to grips with my little-ness. Because - I lie to myself constantly – about my significance. I am like the character Walter Mitty – living a dualistic life. Aren’t we all?

I want to be like Buddha – enlightened. I want the intellectual strength of 100 PHD’s – all in different fields. I want to be the Messiah and save the world. I want a bazillion dollars. And then reality sets in – and – here I am talking to you. Oh well, another fantasy shot to hell. It is important to know my place. What I am trying to say is that my insecurity grounds me – and – most importantly motivates me. Without insecurity we are not motivated to do anything – we need it! We should not hide from it – we should run to it. Insecurity is the wellspring from which our lives flow.

It seems you are in a battle with wretched contentment as described by Nietzsche

http://www.pitt.edu/~wbcurry/nietzsche/nuber.html

..............What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.
The hour when you say, 'What matters my happiness? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment. But my happiness ought to justify existence itself.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my reason? Does it crave knowledge as the lion his food? It is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'
The hour when you say, 'What matters my virtue? As yet it has not made me rage. How weary I am of my good and my evil! All that is poverty and filth and wretched contentment.'..................................

Yes we are nothing in Plato’s cave with the potential for something greater. Only a rare few have the need to rise above wretched contentment. Who has this need for truth greater than the need for wretched contentment? Are you willing to suffer for truth and the experience wretched contentment denies us?

Excerpted from a letter Simone Weil wrote on May 15, 1942 in Marseilles, France to her close friend Father Perrin:

At fourteen I fell into one of those fits of bottomless despair that come with adolescence, and I seriously thought of dying because of the mediocrity of my natural faculties. The exceptional gifts of my brother, who had a childhood and youth comparable to those of Pascal, brought my own inferiority home to me. I did not mind having no visible successes, but what did grieve me was the idea of being excluded from that transcendent kingdom to which only the truly great have access and wherein truth abides. I preferred to die rather than live without that truth……………………….

[Woodart]

It seems you are in a battle with wretched contentment as described by Nietzsche

Yes we are nothing in Plato’s cave with the potential for something greater. Only a rare few have the need to rise above wretched contentment. Who has this need for truth greater than the need for wretched contentment? Are you willing to suffer for truth and the experience wretched contentment denies us?

You make a very astute point Nick – I have wretched contentment. I think most people are just content to watch the shadows in Plato’s cave – that was Plato’s point was it not? Wretched contentment is a type of insecurity. Insecurity also reveals another human characteristic which is important – coward-ness. I think we are all cowards. We lead quite lives of desperation. Are you a actualized individual? Do you aspire to be more? Have you reached your potential? I can really only speak for myself – I am not. I look around and see people in jobs they hate – in marriages that don’t work – with kids that are duds – in fat bodies – slow brains – and on and on. I am relatively content with my life, but maybe that’s the problem – we settle. We reach a certain plateau and then stop. I know this is true for me – how about you?

Bertrand Russell says that philosophy lies in between the known facts of science and the dogma of theology, and is therefore attacked on either side. He says that it is the study of, if not the answering of, life's 'insoluble' problems, and a critical part of our history and culture.

If you look at a person Like Bertrand Russell he was a world class mathematician and wrote over 100 books. They were all fantasy romance books – right? He won a Noble Prize in literature. Now, you may say he born with a silver spoon. However, he championed humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought – like few before or since. He had a protégé – Wittgenstein – a bum. The amount of his work is staggering – to say nothing of its depth. When I think of my life in relation to Russell’s – I really feel like a coward.

I find it hard to be honest. I am not the man I could be and it is a heavy weight. But here I am dribbling out a little truth – here and there. Still trying to be – something. There is a person here in this thread that I really admire – Spectrum. He criticizes Islam with clarity and passion that we don’t see much of around here. I have had a few private conversations with Spectrum about Islam; but I do not yet have the courage to speak publically. Why? - Because I am afraid. I hate Islam, but so far have been reluctant to talk about it for fear of reprisal. Do you think you are anonymous here on this forum? I used to be a computer professional and believe me – there is no anonymity.


There is another issue that makes most people insecure – sex. Are you comfortable talking about sex?