Death: The Ultimate truth?

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Synthesis
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Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Synthesis »

Thinking is not what we believe it to be. Perhaps nothing reveals this supposition more than how [most] human beings deal with death, the idea that, "there are no atheists in the foxhole," sort of thing. Why is it that the only thing we know to be true [our mortality] scares the hell out of almost everybody?

The answer most would come back with is fear of the unknown. But what does this, "fear of the unknown," mean?

Well, it would seem to mean that we can not deal with anything we actually know to be true. This might be similar to how many believe that people would completely lose it if they knew what their future might hold, or the ever-popular, "if you want God to get even with you, have Him give you exactly what you want."

People live in a fantasy world created by an intellect that [to say the least] is a work in progress. Although most would suggest that it is our intelligence which differentiates us from the rest of the creepy crawlies that ply the Earth's surface, I would suggest that it is the very same that positions us at the bottom of the totem pole of functional species, a smidgen above the hyena, but considerably below the sloth.
Woodart
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Woodart »

Synthesis wrote:
People live in a fantasy world created by an intellect that [to say the least] is a work in progress. Although most would suggest that it is our intelligence which differentiates us from the rest of the creepy crawlies that ply the Earth's surface, I would suggest that it is the very same that positions us at the bottom of the totem pole of functional species, a smidgen above the hyena, but considerably below the sloth.
I don't think we are above the Hyena - what do you have against Hyena's?
Synthesis
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Synthesis »

Woodart wrote:
Synthesis wrote:
People live in a fantasy world created by an intellect that [to say the least] is a work in progress. Although most would suggest that it is our intelligence which differentiates us from the rest of the creepy crawlies that ply the Earth's surface, I would suggest that it is the very same that positions us at the bottom of the totem pole of functional species, a smidgen above the hyena, but considerably below the sloth.
I don't think we are above the Hyena - what do you have against Hyena's?
Touche!
Prothero
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Prothero »

"Get busy living or Get busy dying" Andy Dufrene, Shankshaw Redemption
I choose the get busy living and don't dwell on death. It is death that makes time precious.
As for "functional species", I am not sure what criteria you are using to make such value judgements.
Spectrum
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Spectrum »

Death: The Ultimate truth?
NO!!

I believe that was J Stuart Mill's view.
The maxim "All man are mortal" is actually inductive and not an ultimate truth.
This is based on Hume's Problem of Induction.
We conclude "All man are mortal" based on observing people [kins, others] dying and no one has lived more than 150 years. This is merely based on induction.
Just as there is no guarantee the Sun will rise tomorrow, there is a possibility with the advent of Science, humans could live longer than 150 years and never die. Who is so sure such a hypothesis cannot happen.

So "All man are mortal" is at best a conditional truth and not an ultimate truth.

On a practical basis I am more interested in the following;
  • Synthesis: Why is it that the only thing we know to be true [our mortality] scares the hell out of almost everybody?
This is the fundamental basis of why the majority of humans are religious & theistic and how this leverage SOME evil prone believers into committing terrible evils and violence around the world.

-- Updated Tue Aug 01, 2017 10:10 pm to add the following --

Correction;
should be: "All men are mortal"
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Sy Borg
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Sy Borg »

Synthesis wrote:Thinking is not what we believe it to be. Perhaps nothing reveals this supposition more than how [most] human beings deal with death, the idea that, "there are no atheists in the foxhole," sort of thing. Why is it that the only thing we know to be true [our mortality] scares the hell out of almost everybody?

The answer most would come back with is fear of the unknown. But what does this, "fear of the unknown," mean?

Well, it would seem to mean that we can not deal with anything we actually know to be true. This might be similar to how many believe that people would completely lose it if they knew what their future might hold, or the ever-popular, "if you want God to get even with you, have Him give you exactly what you want."

People live in a fantasy world created by an intellect that [to say the least] is a work in progress. Although most would suggest that it is our intelligence which differentiates us from the rest of the creepy crawlies that ply the Earth's surface, I would suggest that it is the very same that positions us at the bottom of the totem pole of functional species, a smidgen above the hyena, but considerably below the sloth.
Humans are vastly more intelligent than other species and there is no question of it. Just as an ape is obviously smarter than a lizard, humans are obviously smarter than other apes. It's just as well since we lack strength, speed, claws, fur, a thick hide, spikes, venom or the ability to exude slime or ink. Since humans are easily damaged, the point of intelligence is to place the body in places where it won't be damaged.

Meanwhile, fear of death has been inherited by countless generations of ancestors who survived because they were so keen to avoid death. No doubt that drive can be overridden in at least some people via willpower or beliefs, but those of us who are not warriors or in a depressed state tend to retain an enthusiasm for staying alive.

It is true that in cultures where death isn't a local everyday occurrence, there is a tendency to live in denial, as though the worst won't happen. The attitude is basically one of crossing that particular bridge when it comes, and in the meantime to embrace life.

Speaking of crossing bridges, there is definitely some, if not the, truth to be found in death. I think it was Max Tegmark who said that black holes were important because it is at the fringes where much can be learned about the nature of things. In terms of life, the extremes are fertilisation and death, with neither usually given much thought as they are "distant". It often takes a scare or the death of someone close to jolt us to reality.
Eduk
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Eduk »

Avoiding death is not limited to human life.
Unknown means unknown.
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GraphicsGuy
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by GraphicsGuy »

Synthesis wrote:Why is it that the only thing we know to be true [our mortality] scares the hell out of almost everybody?
I must be slightly oddball in that I have no specific fear of dying. I have no desire to die right now and I have a greater fear of getting old and senile than I do of dying.

I guess I have the practical view of, "We all have to go that way eventually".

Also, while "I" will die, everything that makes up "I" continues to exist (in regards to matter), so the chances of my existence again at some point in the future are just as great as my chances of ever having existed at all in the first place...and for all I know this may not be my first existence...
Synthesis
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Synthesis »

Greta wrote:It is true that in cultures where death isn't a local everyday occurrence, there is a tendency to live in denial, as though the worst won't happen. The attitude is basically one of crossing that particular bridge when it comes, and in the meantime to embrace life.
Making peace with the notion that all things [including ourselves] are born, have life, and death would seem to be job #1 that must take place before one embraces life.

As with the bucket-list kind of thing, people see life in terms of artificially created constraints, as if they have x amount of time and y amount of money and so on and so forth instead of seeing life as something that is going on despite our attempts to apply analytics.

Death is the ultimate truth because it is something that even the most hard core among us can not deny. Of course, the Truth of the matter is, no life, no death, only Being.
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The Beast
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by The Beast »

One way the cycle of life does not include Death is in the construction of culture. We praise what we learn, we evaluate, we change what we like and then we sign into law what we leave behind so the next generation do the same. Another way: We are the conductors of reality from point A to point B. At point B, another driver takes over. Where will it go? Maybe a different kind of Death. I want a ticket to Heaven.
Yet, another way is by procreating. We pass from life to life. From human to human, from hyena to hyena. The cells are alive in the body as they embark to their destination where they learn, evaluate and transform into another body. What is it? The message or the hardware built by the message with the elements of the periodic table? What of the elements? The physics are the message… and what of the Physics? Their history is like the history of our own DNA/message… What of the particles?... Do they have any mass? Death? My cells renewed hundred times. The foggy memories I keep or the way I feel now when I look at my younger self. Deep inside second to second I was this young. I am.
Spectrum
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Spectrum »

GraphicsGuy wrote:
Synthesis wrote:Why is it that the only thing we know to be true [our mortality] scares the hell out of almost everybody?
I must be slightly oddball in that I have no specific fear of dying.
You not an oddball but a normal human being.
I have wrote those who fear death in a very conscious regular manner are actually mentally sick and as such need psychiatric help to cure their thanatophobia.
Additionally there is anxiety [thanatophobia] where the cause is death related (in thought-content[3]), which might be classified within a clinical setting by a psychiatrist as morbid and, or, abnormal, which for classification pre-necessitates a degree of anxiety which is persistent and interferes with everyday functioning.
en.wik1pedia.org/wiki/Death_anxiety_(ps ... natophobia
While any impending threat of death is terrifying that it drives the person to avoid premature death, the fact of mortality is generally strongly suppressed deep in the brain during normal living conditions. This is necessary so that the normal person is not paralyzed by such terrifying fears and terror.

Nature is never perfect and there are always leakages of the suppression of the fact of mortality at the subliminal or unconscious level that generate as angst, various related anxieties and dissonance.

To reduce dissonance and generate consonance your mind generate this [leap of faith] which is some how soothing and enabling a sense of security;
GraphicsGuy wrote:Also, while "I" will die, everything that makes up "I" continues to exist (in regards to matter), so the chances of my existence again at some point in the future are just as great as my chances of ever having existed at all in the first place...and for all I know this may not be my first existence...
Others invent ideas of God, souls, deities, reincarnation, rebirth, etc. to soothe their dissonance.

Whatever activities is associated with a person reverberate in waves throughout the universe [your cough could have causes a typhoon in China], but there is no identifiable "I" that survives or continue after physical death.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Vivek7
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by Vivek7 »

Why death is something we are so sure of is we are watching deaths almost everyday. Yet the word death is just a name and we kind of philosophize it for our convenience. Both the words life and death are mystifying. Eventhough tons of books have been written to demystify death it is still inconceivable. It is as cryptic as the infifnity of the universe or the existence of God. Nonetheless it is a romanticizing to contemplate over death. I often think our brains is too small or incapacious to understand something like “death”, “God” “universe”. Some theologies, the ancient scriptures like the Vedas and the Upanishads help us to understand them but we cannot totally rely on what these ancient texts say. We have to turn to science too but even science cannot illuminate on such things. Nevertheless we have the luxury of thinking and it is indeed fascinating to meditate over such things even if we are unsure of arriving at the truth about death at the end of the day.
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The Beast
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Re: Death: The Ultimate truth?

Post by The Beast »

What it is empirically true is that the sperm has intrinsic kinetic energy and can navigate towards its objective. Second to second, the life force moves the matter where the program is stored. What happens to the millions that do not reach its destination is Death and putrefaction. Do I have another destination? The empirical data is foggy and plagued with stories of ghostly afterlife. The lifeforce is energy connected to a body and when the body is no more… … then out of the lifetime producing reality a wish of a network to broadcast to the next existence is made real. The network is one of metaphysical properties. I become metaphysical energy… or maybe that is what it always was. Was there a lifeforce in the putrefaction of the sperm? Maybe a call to life is at hand or a call of its origin.We are in transit. I am what I want.
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