I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

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I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#1  Postby Eduk » August 4th, 2017, 11:29 am

I have noticed this odd, to me, trend recently.
I will be reading some doom laden post. They will be talking about religious persecution, terrorism, wars and other extreme events where people are losing their lives in large numbers and then randomly add transgender and too PC as a great injustice in the world!
Now I can perfectly understand why wars are bad. Loss of life. Innocent deaths. Great financial cost vastly effecting quality of life. Plus the whole circle of never ending revenge. And often for what? For religion? For greed? For random ignorance? Most of the time the reason or reasons aren't even all that clear.
But transgender? I just don't understand the threat when compared to war? Who's getting killed? What children are dying, who's relocating, and so on.
I mean I get it. You don't like the idea of two men having sexual intercourse. And you, apparently, like the idea of ambiguous genitals even more (no idea why). And you also really dislike the idea of some bloke deciding he wants to be a girl and presumably feel that you can't criticise this? Or at least you dislike feeling that you shouldn't criticise this?
Now personally I have no issue with two guys or girls having sex. I also have no issue with reality of hard to categorise sexes in very rare cases. I am not a fan of sex change operations and the like though and I see no contradiction in this. People can demand respect all they want but that has nothing to do with deserving respect. At the same time I don't hate someone who wants surgery even if it's something I don't support. I can still support them for example.
But and here's the point really. How is it reasonable to compare any issue you may have with transgender (right or wrong) with something like war?
Like I said, I just don't get it. Who's dying?
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I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender



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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#2  Postby Steve3007 » August 4th, 2017, 4:17 pm

I think issues like this about sexual politics would generally come under the heading of perceived threats to what are often referred to as family values. I'd guess that it is a symptom of our inherited fear of the breakup of what are regarded as the norms of society. We've been a successful species in a hard and dangerous world by forming cooperative units - tribes and families - whose members follow the tribal rules. Living outside those rules and possibly encouraging others to do likewise is considered very dangerous.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#3  Postby Don Schneider » August 4th, 2017, 7:44 pm

Steve3007 wrote:I think issues like this about sexual politics would generally come under the heading of perceived threats to what are often referred to as family values. I'd guess that it is a symptom of our inherited fear of the breakup of what are regarded as the norms of society. We've been a successful species in a hard and dangerous world by forming cooperative units - tribes and families - whose members follow the tribal rules. Living outside those rules and possibly encouraging others to do likewise is considered very dangerous.


I agree completely. Furthermore, I believe there is no such thing as a "transgender." Some people think they are hobbits or lighthouses. A woman who worked for a branch office of the NAACP thinks she’s black despite having two white parents and blonde hair and blue eyes. They have deep psychological problems and sky high suicide rates after they undergo this mutilation surgery. Even the former chief psychiatrist at John Hopkins now asserts such, and they were the first American hospital to perform sex change operations. Indulging these delusions is the real cruelty within this PC world that the “progressives” have forced upon us. History will call them asses.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#4  Postby -1- » August 4th, 2017, 7:58 pm

those rednecks driving their 2x4s who hate xgender folks are just plain jealous.

In America, everyone wants to be something else than what they can. That is the lure of the slogan "country of unlimited opportunities."

Then they blast you for being an opportunist.

I've come in contact with some xgender folks. (No, not that kind of contact.) They are the gentlest, kindest, sweetest weirdos you ever can want to meet. They are just like you and me, except they are less blood thirsty than I am on the "argumentative" forums.

Xgenderism is nothing you should get upset about. What you must care and get up in arms about is transspeciesism. You have a beautiful, blonde, slender daughter, barely 16, and on her 17th birthday she goes to the hospital and comes out as a common red-crested field warbler. That must hurt.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#5  Postby Eduk » August 4th, 2017, 9:43 pm

Like I said I'm not a fan of sex change operations either. Although I'm sure there are reasonable exceptions.
Likewise I'm not a fan of plastic surgery on cheeks, nose, breasts, belly etc. Again there are exceptions.
But although it is somewhat recognised that plastic surgery may not be the best thing ever I've never read a list of the greatest crimes of humanity with a nose job as part of the list.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#6  Postby Alias » August 4th, 2017, 10:41 pm

The people who do not conform to narrow sexual roles, as understood by some long-dead sheep-herders who treated their sons like board pieces in a game they played with their god, have never posed the slightest threat to the mores or social order of any community.
When women and other slaves were gradually liberated, no society fell apart; no economy collapsed; no chaos broke out - in spite of the dire warnings and doom-laden preachments.
And those were large segments of the population - like half. Liberating 0.6% of the population from having to hide their differentness will make no significant dent in anything at all. They've always been in every society anyway; they look like everyone else, wear clothes, live in houses, go to the mall; work like everyone else, obey the traffic laws, pay taxes, send their kids to school. They have no desire to disrupt other people's marriages and families - only to have the same rights.

So, what's the big deal?
There are two issues: admitting that Jehovah got yet another thing wrong, and losing a conveniently powerless scapegoat for the society's collective sins.
It's mostly about the deflection of blame for how the powerful majority screwed up.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#7  Postby Spectrum » August 4th, 2017, 10:57 pm

Don Schneider wrote:
Steve3007 wrote:I think issues like this about sexual politics would generally come under the heading of perceived threats to what are often referred to as family values. I'd guess that it is a symptom of our inherited fear of the breakup of what are regarded as the norms of society. We've been a successful species in a hard and dangerous world by forming cooperative units - tribes and families - whose members follow the tribal rules. Living outside those rules and possibly encouraging others to do likewise is considered very dangerous.

I agree completely.

I agree with Steve3007. The effect is a natural deviation from the norm.

Furthermore, I believe there is no such thing as a "transgender." Some people think they are hobbits or lighthouses. A woman who worked for a branch office of the NAACP thinks she’s black despite having two white parents and blonde hair and blue eyes. They have deep psychological problems and sky high suicide rates after they undergo this mutilation surgery. Even the former chief psychiatrist at John Hopkins now asserts such, and they were the first American hospital to perform sex change operations. Indulging these delusions is the real cruelty within this PC world that the “progressives” have forced upon us. History will call them asses.

By default of nature, the human species, generally male should be male [physical and mental] and female should be female.

However Nature is naturally not perfect and human nature [like any thing else] varies from the what is accepted as the norm in various degrees [in term of standard deviation -sigma].

There are many physical and mental systems that deviate from the norms of the human species.
In perception, e.g. the visual system, whatever light waves reaching the retina will end up in the optic nerves system and generally perceived visually as something. However, there is a syndrome called synaesthesia, where light waves reaching the retina trigger the tasting nerves and the person sense a certain taste depending on the colors.


In other situations, there are difference wrong connections between the senses.

So because it is natural to have deviations [conform with the Bell Curve] there are deviations with the sexual system in terms of physical and mental processes.
These deviations [physical and mental] occur in different degrees [sigma].
The higher degrees of deviations are cases of real Hermaphrodites [physical] in some humans.

As in the case of transgender, the problem is the wrong connection between the physical and mental process of sexuality. In this case while the physical development of the physical sexual organs are proper [male] there is a wrong connection of the mental processes [female].

Because it is very natural there are deviations from norms in terms of the physical and the mental process, we have to accept that fact.
The issue is only a matter of degree of the deviations.
If the degree of deviation is very high, a sex change operation should be permitted.
If the degree of deviation is low, then counselling and conditioning methods may be used to rewire the brain to the norm.

The problem is thus, how do we determine the degree of the deviation to decide whether which gender is dominant or whether a sex change can be permitted.

I believe as we advance in the field of neuroscience [Connectome] we should be able to determine where the problem of deviation lies inside the brain and accept the fact of the problem.

I believe the physical features should dominate and prevail. As such in the future [100 years' time] we may be able to tweak [fool proof methods] and right the wrong connections such that the one with a penis will be male and one with vagina, a female.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#8  Postby -1- » August 5th, 2017, 1:26 am

Alias wrote:The people who do not conform to narrow sexual roles, as understood by some long-dead sheep-herders who treated their sons like board pieces in a game they played with their god, have never posed the slightest threat to the mores or social order of any community.
When women and other slaves were gradually liberated, no society fell apart; no economy collapsed; no chaos broke out - in spite of the dire warnings and doom-laden preachments.
And those were large segments of the population - like half. Liberating 0.6% of the population from having to hide their differentness will make no significant dent in anything at all. They've always been in every society anyway; they look like everyone else, wear clothes, live in houses, go to the mall; work like everyone else, obey the traffic laws, pay taxes, send their kids to school. They have no desire to disrupt other people's marriages and families - only to have the same rights.

So, what's the big deal?
There are two issues: admitting that Jehovah got yet another thing wrong, and losing a conveniently powerless scapegoat for the society's collective sins.
It's mostly about the deflection of blame for how the powerful majority screwed up.


This was beautifully said. How sad it was in times when it couldn't be said.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#9  Postby Alias » August 5th, 2017, 1:44 am

It's still sad! Look how many people are eaten up with the need to tell other people how they "should" be, what criteria "should" be used for "normal".
When it makes no goddamn bit of difference to the the problem of ice-caps melting or bees dying or any other thing that actually matters.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#10  Postby -1- » August 5th, 2017, 2:27 am

Alias wrote:It's still sad! Look how many people are eaten up with the need to tell other people how they "should" be, what criteria "should" be used for "normal".
When it makes no goddamn bit of difference to the the problem of ice-caps melting or bees dying or any other thing that actually matters.


What kills me is when the non-subscribers categorically state "it is impossible to be (transgender, homosexual, etc.)"

They are the first to admit, that God is almighty, and He can create anything and anyone he wants. Or if they are materialists, then they ought to know that non-survival types of mutations in the fetus or in the zygotes can occur just as easily, in fact, way more easily, than positive mutations.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#11  Postby Spectrum » August 5th, 2017, 3:27 am

Alias wrote:It's still sad! Look how many people are eaten up with the need to tell other people how they "should" be, what criteria "should" be used for "normal".
When it makes no goddamn bit of difference to the the problem of ice-caps melting or bees dying or any other thing that actually matters.

The issue of transgender do matters as it invoke cognitive dissonance at the very base level. That is why it is such a big issue and thus we need to find solutions that will meet the expectations of all parties.

Where the issue of transgender is very obvious there is no significant problem. On the marginal issues, if we do not take the issue seriously we will have different people with different degrees of 'transgenderism' simply veering towards the gender 'of the moment' without giving serious thoughts to such critical life-changing issues [taking massive hormones and irreversible sex-change]. There are many cases of transgender people who regret a permanent transition to the other sex.

What goes on in the brain [when we are ignorant of its inner workings] is very unpredictable and at times those young males who felt feminine at an early age may change drastically when they are older due to various degrees of hormonal surges or where the brain naturally veer and rewire back to norm.

I agree the more serious problems humanity is facing need to be prioritized to available resources and time. But this is merely a discussion forum with words, as such there is no need to limit a discussion like this.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#12  Postby Steve3007 » August 5th, 2017, 3:42 am

I have a feeling that I might not entirely agree with all the people who agree with me! I wasn't stating my own opinion on the perceived threat of transgender people. I was offering a bit of armchair anthropology to attempt to explain why those perceptions might exist in humans generally; why anything that is not the standard man/woman/children family unit might be perceived as a threat to the stability of society. Whether any given thing actually is a threat to our societies is a different question.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#13  Postby Greta » August 5th, 2017, 4:05 am

It is the usual in-group, out-group dynamics which defines groups.

A minuscule percent of people with a troubled history who are just trying to get by in life would hardly seem a threat in a world with plenty enough genuine threats to suffice without making mountains out of molehills. Live and let live applies in this question.
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#14  Postby Alias » August 5th, 2017, 9:44 am

Spectrum wrote:Where the issue of transgender is very obvious there is no significant problem....

Why is it an "issue" at all - to you?
Most of the problems of transgendered people throughout history have originated, not in their deviation from the prescribed norm, but from their society's response - which was, and is, often very harsh. That's where the high suicide rate comes from: a person can take only so much abuse before they break.
What is it about a non-standard male that scares standard males into fits of rabid persecution? (I can speculate, but you have to do your own introspection.) Why do normal-seeming women become hysterical at the idea of her neighbours making different whoopee from her and her husband's missionary posture? (I suspect its mostly because they've been poisoned with religious propaganda.)
If violence is committed against an innocent person, that's everyone's issue.
If someone is concerned or dissatisfied with their own sexuality, the issue is between them and whatever professional help they consult - whether it's surgery, hormones, psychotherapy or whatever the purpose, whatever the outcome - it's nobody else's business.
If they're not asking for your help and you're not qualified to give any, why not just worry about your own issues?
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Re: I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

Post Number:#15  Postby Don Schneider » August 5th, 2017, 11:08 am

Many people have always had sexual fetishes of various kinds. Some are transvestites who are sexually aroused by wearing clothes conventionally worn by the opposite sex. In today’s PC environment run amok, yesterday’s transvestites have become today’s “transgenders.” “Maybe I really am a woman notwithstanding my male genitalia.” This total lack of individual and societal restraint leads to tragedies such as mutilation surgery and aberrant suicide rates. Without such societal indulgence such tragedies could be averted. It is a matter both of the welfare of the individual and society as a whole in protecting future individuals from this folly.

Why do some make an allowance for this definition (of gender) but not in other cases? If a person thinks he’s Napoleon, does one indulge such a fantasy? Some things are such by virtue of realty, objective definition. A country can pass a law outlawing cancer, for example, but cancer will occur nevertheless. I can “self-identify” as Bill Gates, but will his security people allow me access to his mansion and bank accounts?
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