I don't understand the perceived threat of transgender

[Don Schneider]

The "hard-core majority" doesn't exist, either.
Most people nowadays don't mind (Maybe most people never did care, or know, or ask, what everyone's else's gender might be). It's just a loud, self-righteous minority that's so afraid of their own ambiguous feeling toward their own identity and sexuality that believes they
1. ought to
and
2. have the right to
choose the criteria by which everyone is judged and treated..

Oh, malarkey. You are really reaching. Rest assured that I, for one, have no “ambiguous feeling toward their own identity and sexuality." I’m reminded of my gender, for instance, every time I take a pee. That doesn’t work for you? I ‘m also reminded that I’m not a dog, for instance, every time I walk upright on two legs...and have done so since around age one. As Herod Agrippa quietly remarks after Caligula’s announcement that eh has become a god was accepted by his court sycophants: “History will call you an ass.”

[Burning ghost]

A - There is no "threat"? No idea what the OP is referring to.

B - 90% of the posts on this topic are merely uninformed opinions (a lot of which is blatantly pushed by having read a single article/book on the subject that happens to agree with the readers preconceived ideas and personal values.)

C - Comes after B.

[Don Schneider]

A - There is no "threat"? No idea what the OP is referring to.

B - 90% of the posts on this topic are merely uninformed opinions (a lot of which is blatantly pushed by having read a single article/book on the subject that happens to agree with the readers preconceived ideas and personal values.)

C - Comes after B.

Good post/lecture. So what's your doubtlessly well informed opinion? (After all, it is your opinion.)

[Belindi]

Don Schneider, wrote:

I’m reminded of my gender, for instance, every time I take a pee.

You might at least know that gender is not the same as primary sexual characteristics.

-- Updated August 7th, 2017, 1:02 pm to add the following --

You should look it up in reputable source.

[Alias]

The "hard-core majority" doesn't exist, either.
Most people nowadays don't mind (Maybe most people never did care, or know, or ask, what everyone's else's gender might be). It's just a loud, self-righteous minority that's so afraid of their own ambiguous feeling toward their own identity and sexuality that believes they
1. ought to
and
2. have the right to
choose the criteria by which everyone is judged and treated..

Oh, malarkey. You are really reaching. Rest assured that I, for one, have no “ambiguous feeling toward their own identity and sexuality." I’m reminded of my gender, for instance, every time I take a pee.

It must provide you great comfort. Do you also stare at other people's?

That doesn’t work for you?

No, but then, it's not supposed to have. I have my own concerns and couldn't care less about your gender and how you define it, or your sexuality or how you express it, so long as you are not hurting others.

I ‘m also reminded that I’m not a dog, for instance, every time I walk upright on two legs...and have done so since around age one.

Oh, I see. Most of us are so secure in our species identity that we just take it for granted and don't worry about it. I do not grudge you whatever reassurance you find in upright posture; I just wonder, idly and briefly, why you need so much reminding.

As Herod Agrippa quietly remarks after Caligula’s announcement that eh has become a god was accepted by his court sycophants: “History will call you an ass.”

History calls nobody anything. The writers and readers of historical documents interpret events in various ways; consider some incidents and statements more significant than others. You seem preoccupied with Caligula, and this does seem appropriate in our current times, though entirely off the topic of any societal threats that may be caused a gender-variance.
I mean, if the president started demanding daily deliveries of hermaphrodites, that would pose a real problem, but the personal habits of obscure accountants and shopkeepers are unlikely to be recorded in any version of history; my pecking away at a keyboard on some obscure internet forum, even less so.

[Don Schneider]

(Nested quote removed.)


Oh, malarkey. You are really reaching. Rest assured that I, for one, have no “ambiguous feeling toward their own identity and sexuality." I’m reminded of my gender, for instance, every time I take a pee.

It must provide you great comfort. Do you also stare at other people's?

That doesn’t work for you?

No, but then, it's not supposed to have. I have my own concerns and couldn't care less about your gender and how you define it, or your sexuality or how you express it, so long as you are not hurting others.

I ‘m also reminded that I’m not a dog, for instance, every time I walk upright on two legs...and have done so since around age one.

Oh, I see. Most of us are so secure in our species identity that we just take it for granted and don't worry about it. I do not grudge you whatever reassurance you find in upright posture; I just wonder, idly and briefly, why you need so much reminding.

As Herod Agrippa quietly remarks after Caligula’s announcement that eh has become a god was accepted by his court sycophants: “History will call you an ass.”

History calls nobody anything. The writers and readers of historical documents interpret events in various ways; consider some incidents and statements more significant than others. You seem preoccupied with Caligula, and this does seem appropriate in our current times, though entirely off the topic of any societal threats that may be caused a gender-variance.
I mean, if the president started demanding daily deliveries of hermaphrodites, that would pose a real problem, but the personal habits of obscure accountants and shopkeepers are unlikely to be recorded in any version of history; my pecking away at a keyboard on some obscure internet forum, even less so.

I didn’t anticipate getting into a flame war on a philosophy forum. Reading over your comments, such as they are, it appears a moot point as yours appears to be flickering. It must be a comfort to you that keyboards have been invented as I doubt they allow you anything sharp in there.

[Alias]

Good one! *sputter*...*spff* ... fade to black

[Rainman]

When we were cavemen and lived in tribes, a natural suspicion of anything out of the ordinary helped us survive. In this, more modern, world, we don't need any training to continue being suspicious of "strange" things or people however we do need training to counteract these basic instincts. We are dealing with thousands of years of self-preserving dna and it isn't easy to change people's ideas. It isn't a priority in our school system to get the populace to understand ourselves.

[Belindi]

Rainman wrote:

It isn't a priority in our school system to get the populace to understand ourselves.

The schools you refer to must be terribly backward ones. What schools are those , by the way?

[Gertie]

Don

I didn’t anticipate getting into a flame war on a philosophy forum.

Then you, and others, probably shouldn't casually insult other people and treat them as somehow lesser or not 'normal'/'normative', or oddities to be studied and explained, or deciding whether who they are is acceptable to you.

You know how those PC social justice snowflakes talk about privilege - that's a fine example, this thread is a fine example. That you don't see it and think you're doing philosophy and find people challenging you to be the ones engaging in a flame war is a fine example. That it probably doesn't occur to you that you're talking about people who might well be reading or participating in the discussion is a fine example.

Dressing your prejudice in concern over suicide rates, while actively contributing to societal attitudes which lead to suicide - that's just plain obnoxious.


And this thread has been pretty much bereft of philosophy, starting with the OP.

[Don Schneider]

Don

I didn’t anticipate getting into a flame war on a philosophy forum.

Then you, and others, probably shouldn't casually insult other people and treat them as somehow lesser or not 'normal'/'normative', or oddities to be studied and explained, or deciding whether who they are is acceptable to you.

You know how those PC social justice snowflakes talk about privilege - that's a fine example, this thread is a fine example. That you don't see it and think you're doing philosophy and find people challenging you to be the ones engaging in a flame war is a fine example. That it probably doesn't occur to you that you're talking about people who might well be reading or participating in the discussion is a fine example.

Dressing your prejudice in concern over suicide rates, while actively contributing to societal attitudes which lead to suicide - that's just plain obnoxious. And this thread has been pretty much bereft of philosophy, starting with the OP.

I have a prejudice against folly and insanity, not people. People with this mental illness need care and treatment as much as those who suffer from schizophrenia or Tourette’s Syndrome. I have no animus towards any of them any more than I do towards people with cancer or AIDS.

I can link to articles by psychiatrists who support my view, but I doubt you will care. You’d rather wrap yourself in the mantle of tolerance and righteousness while real people suffer the consequences of your willful blindness. Society as a whole suffers from this mass insanity known as political correctness. You probably refused to take twelve or thirteen minutes of your time to watch the video I linked to previously. No one commented upon it.

I hope you’re not waiting for me to cede the moral high ground to you. You’d have a long wait.

[Sy Borg]

It is a remarkable thing that some people truly believe that they know more what is good for others than the people themselves.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I have known some transpeople and I can attest that every single objection made about them on this thread is utter, ignorant nonsense.

[Don Schneider]

It is a remarkable thing that some people truly believe that they know more what is good for others than the people themselves.

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I have known some transpeople and I can attest that every single objection made about them on this thread is utter, ignorant nonsense.

You say your attitude towards them is helpful to them, while I maintain it is the opposite. Fine, let's leave it there. Further discussion is pointless. Thank you.

[Sy Borg]

I am not interested in being helpful, just the truth. If you speak to these people you know they are not mad ad that you are making false claims. I won't claim to know what's going on but definitely not all have issues - they are often just people are are too androgynous in certain respects to function comfortably as according to their sex.

Obviously they look to every possible alternative before making the change (with some more rash than others, no doubt) so I respect them as humans who have had to make painful and difficult choices and survived the kind of ignorant hostility and false claims made about them by people with book knowledge at best. Further, not pointing fingers but just saying because it's true, the judgement is often some kind of compensation for people's own hangups, as shown the the famous University of George test showing greater arousal at homoerotic stimuli in homophobes than in non homophobes.

People are people. There will surely be mistakes but from what I was told at work, postoperative regret is extremely low when there are not significant functional or medical issues present. Live and let live and respect diversity. Not all that is good and healthful for one is good and healthful for another. It's a shame more people don't appreciate this.

-- Updated 07 Aug 2017, 19:08 to add the following --

When we were cavemen and lived in tribes, a natural suspicion of anything out of the ordinary helped us survive. In this, more modern, world, we don't need any training to continue being suspicious of "strange" things or people however we do need training to counteract these basic instincts. We are dealing with thousands of years of self-preserving dna and it isn't easy to change people's ideas. It isn't a priority in our school system to get the populace to understand ourselves.

Exactly and well expressed. The in-group / out-group mentality is deeply ingrained.

Attempts to help children understand diversity are derided as "social engineering" and humanity appears to be becoming less tolerant of diversity. Do you remember the days of "loveable eccentrics"? Now such people are deemed to be mentally ill and a cure is sought. Is there a cure for individuality?

[Gertie]

There's a fascinating documentary on a classroom experiment showing just how ingrained and easy to trigger our evolved in-group/out-group instincts are if you're interested. A Class Divided -

http://documentaryvine.com/video/frontl ... s-divided/

The Stanford experiment is another famous one.

Understanding our evolved tendencies, the context in which the neurobiological mechanisms developed to be suited to, and how norms become enculturated and passed on is vital in understanding ourselves, and the problems they can lead to in the very different social contexts we inhabit now in our globalised world of inter-connected strangers, from the link between how we perceive and categorise norms and normativity, to medicalising difference.