IQ and Intelligence? Problems with schooling

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Re: IQ and Intelligence? Problems with schooling

Post by -1- »

Burning ghost wrote:I think it is fair to say that IQ tests do tell us something.

What is it they tell us about?

My view is that IQ tests are only of real use if testing something specific about a persons mental capacities. As an example someone with no general knowledge may find questions about culturally imposed norms as being gibberish. As an example if you're asked about the number of days in a week and you come from a society which has 12 days in the week you'll obliviously come up with a wrong answer. Or if there are questions about Christmas Day you may well have no idea when Christmas Day is or confuse Christmas Eve with Christmas Day (a quite common mistake in countries where Christianity does not have much of a historical hold.)

Other examples of the inaccuracies would be to test someone with mathematical questions when they've had no formal mathematical schooling. Certain tricks and tools taught at school will be unavailable for them and if they can manage to get the correct answer after some truly innate ability it would surely take them longer to do so which would give them a lower IQ result even though they may have just figured out how to perform some mathematical techniques all by themselves!

This has always been a very problematic subject for society. We should all understand the original purpose of the IQ test. It was employed to distinguish "retarded" people and put them into an environment to suit their needs rather than hold the class back. We have in effect employed this system in schooling by creating tests to determine the level of class the student goes into. Is this really helpful?

I personally think it has its drawbacks and that a mixed environment would help many more students. As an example imagine a pupil who excels in math helping a student who excels in art. Then when it comes to art class the reverse would happen. I really think incorporating this idea, alongside graded classes, would be very helpful. I have always found that teaching is a great way to learn. To understand how to teach helps a student understand how to get the best from their peers as well as their teachers, given they will understand the problems faced by the teacher and be better equipped to bridge the gap.

As an aside are those who get a high IQ result more likely to say they believe it than others that don't? Obviously we know they will whilst those who feel they are ranked lower than they should will refuse to believe the results.
The last paragraph in the quote is an example of rationalizing cognitive dissonance for those who are told they had scored low on an IQ test. How would anyone's opinion affect how the measurements of IQ by tests predict performance by the individual? It is entirely an empirical thing.

As to your other objections:

-- there are math- and culture independent IQ tests. The reasons of your harping about the pre-knowledge is eliminated in those tests.

Your entire post, Burning Ghost, is a plea of sour grapes.
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Re: IQ and Intelligence? Problems with schooling

Post by Alias »

-1- wrote:
Your entire post, Burning Ghost, is a plea of sour grapes.
I think it's more a gripe of frustration. Academic testing and measuring really can be detrimental to student confidence, and even to education generally.
If students, from an early age, expect to be judged, at unspecified intervals on a performance the objective of which they don't understand, by invisible people whose motivation and intention is unknown, there will always be a certain amount of fear on the part of the students and a desire on the part of the teacher to meet standards; to maximize the students' scores - to teach to the test rather than the subject. Among students whose parents and community are success-oriented, the pressure is greater.
A whole lot more valuable learning takes place in a happy, relaxed classroom than in a tense, anxious one.
There ought to be a better way to do things.

Sometimes I think we should march the little blighters outside, seat them in a circle under a tree, and draw in the sand with a stick. That's all teaching is, really.
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Re: IQ and Intelligence? Problems with schooling

Post by Burning ghost »

"sour grapes" ? How so?

I am pointing out the limits of IQ tests and how it is very well documented that if you tell someone they are of low intelligence they will not perform at a task as they would if you'd told them the opposite. This continued over a period of time would be detrimental to students confidence, and therefore progress in learning.
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