Dude, I think many of the problems that exist we create for ourselves; some people just seem to be in the line of fire all the time - I don't know, perhaps it's because they put themselves there. I am a woman and I can count on my one hand if I've lost four fingers the times a man made me feel inferior. Perhaps we should mix with the right people and aim at things that are achievable.Woodart wrote:Talking about gender inequality is not an easy subject for most all of us - myself included. The reason is we propagate and perpetuate it in our own lives. If we cannot have equality in our personal deportment – how can we expect peace on Earth? If we support practices that hold another class of people down – we are the problem. Who likes to admit that?
You know what makes me angry at women? It is my own biology – because of testosterone I think about sex too much. Who and/or what designed this stupid system – mechanism – circumstance? All I know is – I am stuck in this dumb machine – a prisoner of forces beyond my control.
I think the best card we can play is honesty. We have to be honest about what is happening to us. This has proven to be easier said than done – on both sides of the fence. The reason is we are cowards – all of us. If you don’t see this fact here – in this thread – you are not paying attention. Coward!
What is anger?
- Socrateaze
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Re: What is anger?
- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
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Re: What is anger?
Sex is one of our greatest sources of gratification – but – it can also be one of tremendous frustration. Sex gives us intense pleasure, but it seduces us into a world of fantasy – an unreal world. Sex is funny – it is like a drug. We have and we like it, but we are not always completely honest about our own behavior. Most sex in humans – I think – is a hybrid of reality and fantasy. It is the fantasy part that keeps us in denial. Would you say to your significant other – “sweetheart, let’s make love, so I can think about your sister or brother”? I don’t think so! However, we do think of other people when we make love – quite often.
- Burning ghost
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Re: What is anger?
Example? Why especially as relates to sex?denial of angers role in the world especially as it relates to sex.
I think there is something to be said for social animals and how they cope with emotions. I most certainly wouldn't relate sex with sex directly, but that said we can generally see that hormones cause more "fragmentation" of emotional control during the period of puberty. Prior to this it is clear to me sex is not on the radar for children yet they suffer from fits anger mostly due to balancing their world view with the world and coming to appreciate that other minds exist. Sexuality merely seems to be the cherry on the cake compared to this.
I do find it interesting when we look at physiological states we can observe during anger and excitement. They share a few obvious features. This is why my initially post on this thread referred to "anger" being misdirected "energy" (I mean this without wishing to sound like a hippy though. hahaha!)
Why the fascination with sex? Is there an underlying thought, experience or theory behind this you've yet to reveal?
note: I think we can all appreciate that we're cowardly, stupid and deluded. That is just part of being human
- Socrateaze
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Re: What is anger?
Sex don't make me angry, people make me angry.Woodart wrote:I do detect some anger here – lately – in this thread. Am I imagining things? Maybe, but I do not think so. Is it ok – I would say – yes it is normal – somewhat? What I also detect is denial – denial of one’s own anger – denial of angers role in the world especially as it relates to sex. Do we deny sex’s pervasiveness for humans and its generative ability to produce anger? I think a great many of us do. Sex is not the only thing that makes us angry, but it is one of the big causes. It seems a lot of people are not particularly comfortable talking about sex as it relates to their anger. Why is that?
Sex is one of our greatest sources of gratification – but – it can also be one of tremendous frustration. Sex gives us intense pleasure, but it seduces us into a world of fantasy – an unreal world. Sex is funny – it is like a drug. We have and we like it, but we are not always completely honest about our own behavior. Most sex in humans – I think – is a hybrid of reality and fantasy. It is the fantasy part that keeps us in denial. Would you say to your significant other – “sweetheart, let’s make love, so I can think about your sister or brother”? I don’t think so! However, we do think of other people when we make love – quite often.
- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
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Re: What is anger?
Yes, I agree – sex is just an activity like eating or walking. However, the context that we engage in an activity has a great deal to do with how we feel. If we eat with a person that disturbs us – we can feel anger and/or other emotions. How we feel in any given circumstance is a product of many variables. Some we control – some we don’t – others are a joint venture – sex is a combination of all of these factors.Socrateaze wrote:
Sex don't make me angry, people make me angry.
Sex has a very complex equation because it has both real and unreal characteristics. Fantasy complicates the entire sexual dynamic. I think we fantasize sexually because something is missing in the real part of our sexual life. Most people masturbate at one time or another. Most women are not satisfied in their sexual relations. Why – because something is missing. I believe there is a relationship between sexual dissatisfaction and frustration which can cause anger.
Many things rob us of peace in the world. Sex is a big part of the peace equation. Our frustrations will manifest in a myriad of behaviors. I think we first need to acknowledge where our anger can come from – then and only then – can we mitigate our anger and dissipate the destructive parts of it. Peace eludes us because we don’t “see” where our anger comes from – we react poorly – many times.
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Re: What is anger?
Let's say you are driving down the boulevard and some guy cuts you off. Consider these two potential responses.Socrateaze wrote:Sex don't make me angry, people make me angry.
#1. You just found out yesterday that you were laid-off from your job. To make matters worse, your hot water heater just went out, your dog ran away, and you caught your boyfriend being unfaithful. The guy who just cut you off is definitely going to hear about it.
#2. You just got a big promotion with tons of praise and huge raise at work. And as luck would have it, you had the best sex of your life last night, AND the hot water heater you thought might be out was actually perfectly fine. You figure that the guy who cut you off was probably having a bad day and you simply let him be.
We all own our own anger. There are internal and external things that can trigger anger, but it is fully ours. Awareness is being able to watch your anger as it arises and trace it back to its source. Once you become skilled at this, you begin to view things very differently as you see the 'cause and effect' of all things.
The key is taking complete ownership of your feelings.
-- Updated September 7th, 2017, 2:14 pm to add the following --
Woodart, you are correct that it is very important to see from where your anger emanates. All anger comes from past karma. We are always living this out.Woodart wrote:Many things rob us of peace in the world. Sex is a big part of the peace equation. Our frustrations will manifest in a myriad of behaviors. I think we first need to acknowledge where our anger can come from – then and only then – can we mitigate our anger and dissipate the destructive parts of it. Peace eludes us because we don’t “see” where our anger comes from – we react poorly – many times.
For you, it seems that sex is a big trigger. It is different for everybody. As you begin to cool the fires that burn inside of you, you will see things differently.
- Socrateaze
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Re: What is anger?
I can agree with that. The thing that frustrates me most about sex is when I really like a guy and he's too shy to make a move. So one day I just decided, bugger this and started to make the first move, why should culture dictate to us?Woodart wrote:Yes, I agree – sex is just an activity like eating or walking. However, the context that we engage in an activity has a great deal to do with how we feel. If we eat with a person that disturbs us – we can feel anger and/or other emotions. How we feel in any given circumstance is a product of many variables. Some we control – some we don’t – others are a joint venture – sex is a combination of all of these factors.Socrateaze wrote:
Sex don't make me angry, people make me angry.
Sex has a very complex equation because it has both real and unreal characteristics. Fantasy complicates the entire sexual dynamic. I think we fantasize sexually because something is missing in the real part of our sexual life. Most people masturbate at one time or another. Most women are not satisfied in their sexual relations. Why – because something is missing. I believe there is a relationship between sexual dissatisfaction and frustration which can cause anger.
Many things rob us of peace in the world. Sex is a big part of the peace equation. Our frustrations will manifest in a myriad of behaviors. I think we first need to acknowledge where our anger can come from – then and only then – can we mitigate our anger and dissipate the destructive parts of it. Peace eludes us because we don’t “see” where our anger comes from – we react poorly – many times.
- If you can paint the wind, I will tell you the secrets of the soul.
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Re: What is anger?
Synthesis wrote:
Awareness is being able to watch your anger as it arises and trace it back to its source. Once you become skilled at this, you begin to view things very differently as you see the 'cause and effect' of all things.
The key is taking complete ownership of your feelings.
I think you are being a bit presumptuous and “preachy”. I don’t think we can “see the ‘cause and effect' of all things.” Much of what happens to us is beyond our understanding. We reason as best we can to “see” our own lives – but our vision is many times limited.
Karma is an OK idea to a certain extent, but has its limitations. There are more than 6 million people in the greater Houston area. Is hurricane Harvey a massive karmic event for these people? I don’t think so. The universe has a mind of its own – so to speak. I don’t think Harvey was about karma – at all.Synthesis wrote:
Woodart, you are correct that it is very important to see from where your anger emanates. All anger comes from past karma. We are always living this out.
I think sex is a big factor in everyone’s lives, although some more than others – as I have said before. The celibate controls his behavior, but I doubt his thoughts. Anyone can put blinders and handcuffs on, but biology is still present. Men are ruled by testosterone – in one way or another. I am almost 68 and believe me – the fire in my belly – is rather cool. I talk about sex from what I have observed and learned over a lifetime. I am suspicious of anyone who tells me they have it “under” control. Sex is a wildcard – always has been and I believe always will be.Synthesis wrote:
For you, it seems that sex is a big trigger. It is different for everybody. As you begin to cool the fires that burn inside of you, you will see things differently.
Good for you – go girl.Socrateaze wrote:
So one day I just decided, bugger this and started to make the first move, why should culture dictate to us?
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Re: What is anger?
Woodart wrote:I think you are being a bit presumptuous and “preachy”. I don’t think we can “see the ‘cause and effect' of all things.” Much of what happens to us is beyond our understanding. We reason as best we can to “see” our own lives – but our vision is many times limited.Synthesis wrote:
Awareness is being able to watch your anger as it arises and trace it back to its source. Once you become skilled at this, you begin to view things very differently as you see the 'cause and effect' of all things.
The key is taking complete ownership of your feelings.
You're right, but I think I've got this one. The studying of 'cause and effect' is much of what meditation is. And I would take your comment further by suggesting that everything is beyond our ability to understand, but not at all beyond our ability to realize. Realization is where we can get as close to the truth as is possible.
Karma is an OK idea to a certain extent, but has its limitations. There are more than 6 million people in the greater Houston area. Is hurricane Harvey a massive karmic event for these people? I don’t think so. The universe has a mind of its own – so to speak. I don’t think Harvey was about karma – at all.Synthesis wrote:
Woodart, you are correct that it is very important to see from where your anger emanates. All anger comes from past karma. We are always living this out.
The idea of karma is a human construct, not really what it is. You can take any idea and magnify/minimize it so it makes absolutely no sense.
I think sex is a big factor in everyone’s lives, although some more than others – as I have said before. The celibate controls his behavior, but I doubt his thoughts. Anyone can put blinders and handcuffs on, but biology is still present. Men are ruled by testosterone – in one way or another. I am almost 68 and believe me – the fire in my belly – is rather cool. I talk about sex from what I have observed and learned over a lifetime. I am suspicious of anyone who tells me they have it “under” control. Sex is a wildcard – always has been and I believe always will be.Synthesis wrote:
For you, it seems that sex is a big trigger. It is different for everybody. As you begin to cool the fires that burn inside of you, you will see things differently.
I shall defer to your experience but I do not believe it is as controlling as you might believe.
- Bradiation
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Re: What is anger?
Hope to not get anyone riled. Here are a few puzzle pieces that have been given to me to pass on --- anger is used to gain some sort of control. However, this type of control is used to cover up fear. This is an animal response and is viewed in the animal kingdom as intimidation. (This is why most anger bursts do not lead to physical encounters). The human animal is unaware of its true nature and this breed’s frustration. Thus, it tries to fill its emptiness by controlling the outcome with delusion to hide its fear. Its fear lies in its inability to find true meaning. Thus, his/her superficial life seems dull and unrewarding regardless of the many short term pleasures one can attain ... All other animals in nature do not ponder their future (or the why I am here questions) as this is a GIFT of the human animal only... This gift when misunderstood can be used for power against others and this is a meaningless and empty existence. Making use of this gift (or what it is meant for) is to find a way to create a more generous contribution. When we are angry (or underlying angry) we tend to use our gift destructively against ourselves and/or others, but when we become more aware of ourselves, our gift is then placed in a more generous and compassionate position towards others, and without the need for gratification. Hence, the feeling of empty frustration dissipates...
The true nature of our human animal is to discover its true self by collecting the puzzle pieces that have been scattered throughout history by our fellow corrupted human animals... The closer we get to being less ignorant of the self, the closer we get to viewing anger as an ignorant response...
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Re: What is anger?
Bradiation wrote:Hello Ye of little anger,
Hope to not get anyone riled. Here are a few puzzle pieces that have been given to me to pass on --- anger is used to gain some sort of control. However, this type of control is used to cover up fear. This is an animal response and is viewed in the animal kingdom as intimidation. (This is why most anger bursts do not lead to physical encounters). The human animal is unaware of its true nature and this breed’s frustration. Thus, it tries to fill its emptiness by controlling the outcome with delusion to hide its fear. Its fear lies in its inability to find true meaning. Thus, his/her superficial life seems dull and unrewarding regardless of the many short term pleasures one can attain ... All other animals in nature do not ponder their future (or the why I am here questions) as this is a GIFT of the human animal only... This gift when misunderstood can be used for power against others and this is a meaningless and empty existence. Making use of this gift (or what it is meant for) is to find a way to create a more generous contribution. When we are angry (or underlying angry) we tend to use our gift destructively against ourselves and/or others, but when we become more aware of ourselves, our gift is then placed in a more generous and compassionate position towards others, and without the need for gratification. Hence, the feeling of empty frustration dissipates...
The true nature of our human animal is to discover its true self by collecting the puzzle pieces that have been scattered throughout history by our fellow corrupted human animals... The closer we get to being less ignorant of the self, the closer we get to viewing anger as an ignorant response...
A very fine post and perspective. Indeed, being less ignorant – fearful is our charge. Some suggest meditation which does work. Others become monks or hermits – doing philosophy and psychology can lessen our ignorance. There is value in religious teaching – particularly Buddhism.
I am fearful – now – that we have reached a point of no return. Too many people – too many problems – that a fix is exceedingly difficult. Perhaps we should just thin the herd and try again. I wish we were wiser as a species, but we seem to be missing a few nuts and bolts. Our machine isn’t quite working right. I don’t know if our story is a tragedy – comedy or farce? Probably a combination of all. Being angry at our collective stupidity – is very counter-productive.
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Re: What is anger?
To put 'sex' and 'anger' in perspective, it is such;
- 1. DNA wise all humans are driven to propagate the species.
2. To achieve 1, all humans are programmed with the following;
3. -to survive at all costs.
4. -to avoid premature death.
5. -sexual reproduction
6. -instincts and emotions
7. -primary emotions are Anger, love, sadness, fear etc.
For example if there are threats of premature death, the first reaction is fear [of various degrees] then in many cases anger is also triggered so that the person can react to eliminate the threat or avoid the threat.
If there is any resistance to sexual reproduction impulse, then there a risk to 1 [preservation of the species], and in general the emotion of anger is triggered to drive the person to the act of reproduction to produce the next generation. Thus in general when either spouse is deprived of sex the emotion of anger [in various degrees] is instinctively triggered.
Thus anger is a sub-program that is independent and is triggered [in the respective circumstances and conditions] whenever the mission to preserve the species is threatened. One of this condition is when the impulse to sex is hindered explicitly.
Therefore the emotion of anger is not directly linked to sex but rather it an emotion that is triggered when there is a threat to the preservation of the species via survival of the individual or its reproduction [sex] ability. In fact the intensity of anger is more stronger when related to the threat of premature death so it can drive the person to fight the threat or run from it.
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Re: What is anger?
I think you have missed my point and the point in a couple of instances. First almost none of us are threatened with loss of life on a daily, weekly – yearly basis. It does not come into our focus very often. Sure, when it does happen – “things” accelerate with intense emotions – but normally does not happen very often. Life threatening occurrences rarely happen for most of us. If you are a policeman or firefighter – yes – you see it. Not many of us have hazardous occupations.Spectrum wrote:
Therefore the emotion of anger is not directly linked to sex but rather it an emotion that is triggered when there is a threat to the preservation of the species via survival of the individual or its reproduction [sex] ability. In fact the intensity of anger is more stronger when related to the threat of premature death so it can drive the person to fight the threat or run from it.
Second, sex causes frustrations for almost everyone on a daily basis. Frustration causes anger and anger causes maladaptive behavior. Maladaptive behavior because of sexual frustration is huge for almost everyone. For example – a CEO of a hedge fund – 70 years old and sexually frustrated – buys a company and dismantles it for a quick dirty profit. Thousands of lives are destroyed and communities devastated. Can we draw a correlation? Not legally – but – we can psychologically. Another example – a man 25 years old is sexually frustrated and goes to a bar and starts a fight and really hurts another man. Does the problem he has in his sex life come to the light of day in the following court process? No, it is never mentioned – but there is a direct correlation.
Sexual frustration influences all of our behavior – and – we all have it. Anger is the result of sexual frustration and it comes out – everywhere – many times we are not even aware of it. Everyone has sexual frustration – even people in normal healthy sexual relationships.
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Re: What is anger?
I agree we can trace anger back to sexual frustrations but we cannot generalize, sexual frustrations will definitely generate anger.Woodart wrote:Sexual frustration influences all of our behavior – and – we all have it. Anger is the result of sexual frustration and it comes out – everywhere – many times we are not even aware of it. Everyone has sexual frustration – even people in normal healthy sexual relationships.
A lot of research has been done in this area starting from Freud.
However we cannot generalize sexual frustrations will definitely lead and trigger anger.Nothing inspires murderous mayhem in human beings more reliably than sexual repression. Denied food, water, or freedom of movement, people will get desperate and some may lash out at what they perceive as the source of their problems, albeit in a weakened state. But if expression of sexuality is thwarted, the human psyche tends to grow twisted into grotesque, enraged perversions of desire.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/se ... the-remedy
Humans has a greater faculty of impulse controls i.e. neural inhibitors to inhibit impulses from sexual frustrations to trigger the anger emotions.
In addition, your OP is 'What is anger?' which imply anger in general and that is why I had discussed the topic of anger in various other perspective beside sexual frustrations.
I believe the proximate root variable that drove the anger emotion to evolve is survival and threats of survival.
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Re: What is anger?
I agree – in the beginning survival was the primary motivator of anger. However, now survival does not present itself as a daily threat as much - anymore. It is still present, but anger has evolved and more associated with sex than survival. There are other triggers as well – jealousy – hatred – domination – revenge - you name it. My main point is that anger keeps us from peace – where ever it comes from. Our job is to recognize where anger comes from so we can mitigate it. The “recognition” is not our strongest quality.Spectrum wrote:
I believe the proximate root variable that drove the anger emotion to evolve is survival and threats of survival.
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
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