Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
User avatar
Isolosophy
New Trial Member
Posts: 3
Joined: September 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Isolosophy »

Premise 1: Freedom is absence of obstacles from achieving our own will
Premise 2: Education and knowledge broaden our notion of possibility
Premise 3: Our notion of possibility creates our will
Premise 4: More will entails more obstacles from achieving our own will
Conclusion: Education and knowledge decrease our degree of freedom

For instance, North Korean 1, who has never left North Korea in his life, has fewer obstacles from achieving his will so has greater degree of freedom than North Korean 2 who has been to the US and has returned to North Korea.

If this argument is right, then should education and knowledge be decreased in favour of increasing our freedom? If not, why?
User avatar
SimpleGuy
Posts: 338
Joined: September 11th, 2017, 12:28 pm

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by SimpleGuy »

The problem that you talk about is the problem that aristotle coverd in his work topos as the problem of division between eristic opinions and dialectic , logical deducable opinions. With the existence of eristic cognitiono the education doesn't enhance the insight and the perception. Just a dialectic view of reality in order to deduce real replicable , logical consistent theorems enhances the freedom of will and insight. Thus education itself can after the presented content of aristotles topos not be the only way due to it's principal possiblity to cover real world problems with eristic theorems.
User avatar
Burning ghost
Posts: 3065
Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Burning ghost »

A happy slave is a happy slave. An unhappy slave is an unhappy slave. If happiness is the main pursuit of life then being a happy slave without responsibility is probably an ideal goal to strive for. This would require seeking out a worthy master.

Seems a tad hedonistic to me.

Also, I think your premises are broken. I think you'd need to look at terms like "obstacle" for starters. We can reason quite easily that certain "obstacles" in life present us with new opportunities that may have gone completely unattended if they had not fell in our path. For this reason I don't idealise the position of being a slave without responsibility under the guidance of some supreme flawless master.

And of course, if you think more about this you'll notice you'd first need to acquire the ability to discern the best possible master for you. This would be to effectively hand over all life decisions to someone else.

Not even finished with premise (1) and premise (2) seems equally problematic it is presentation.

note: As an overview are you simply asking if we miss what we don't know about? Obvioiusly we do not. I would say that we have certain "expectations" and cannot help to question our experiences though. Make of that what you will.
AKA badgerjelly
Steve3007
Posts: 10339
Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Steve3007 »

OP:
Conclusion: Education and knowledge decrease our degree of freedom
If you define freedom as the number of options that we are capable of taking divided by the total number of options that we are aware of, then yes education and knowledge could potentially decrease our freedom. It depends on the speed of growth in our abilities versus speed of growth in our knowledge of possibilities.

But if you define freedom not in this relative way but simply as the absolute number of options available to us, then no it doesn't.

---

It's a good OP because it examines a classic problem of modern life: how it's possible for human beings to become materially more and more comfortable and have more and more life opportunities, but not necessarily be any happier than when we spent our whole lives in a single small community living hand-to-mouth.
User avatar
Isolosophy
New Trial Member
Posts: 3
Joined: September 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Isolosophy »

Burning ghost wrote:A happy slave is a happy slave. An unhappy slave is an unhappy slave. If happiness is the main pursuit of life then being a happy slave without responsibility is probably an ideal goal to strive for. This would require seeking out a worthy master.

Seems a tad hedonistic to me.

Also, I think your premises are broken. I think you'd need to look at terms like "obstacle" for starters. We can reason quite easily that certain "obstacles" in life present us with new opportunities that may have gone completely unattended if they had not fell in our path. For this reason I don't idealise the position of being a slave without responsibility under the guidance of some supreme flawless master.

And of course, if you think more about this you'll notice you'd first need to acquire the ability to discern the best possible master for you. This would be to effectively hand over all life decisions to someone else.

Not even finished with premise (1) and premise (2) seems equally problematic it is presentation.

note: As an overview are you simply asking if we miss what we don't know about? Obvioiusly we do not. I would say that we have certain "expectations" and cannot help to question our experiences though. Make of that what you will.
To be fair, I think you are making the link between happiness and freedom by yourself here. I am not intending to show the contradiction of hedonism, but that of the cult of freedom. Also, could you explain why you think premises 1 and 2 are problematic?
User avatar
Isolosophy
New Trial Member
Posts: 3
Joined: September 18th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Isolosophy »

SimpleGuy wrote:The problem that you talk about is the problem that aristotle coverd in his work topos as the problem of division between eristic opinions and dialectic , logical deducable opinions. With the existence of eristic cognitiono the education doesn't enhance the insight and the perception. Just a dialectic view of reality in order to deduce real replicable , logical consistent theorems enhances the freedom of will and insight. Thus education itself can after the presented content of aristotles topos not be the only way due to it's principal possiblity to cover real world problems with eristic theorems.
I have not read the work of Aristotle you mentioned, but as far as I understand, eristic opinions/arguments are ones that are more concerned with refuting another's argument, while dialectic arguments search for truth, but I cannot see how those distinctions relate to my arguments, so would you please elaborate on that? On the contrary, would dialectic arguments not broaden our notion of possibility (see premise 2) better than eristic arguments and therefore potentially limit our freedom even further?
User avatar
Atreyu
Posts: 1737
Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
Location: Orlando, FL

Re: Do education and knowledge limit our freedom?

Post by Atreyu »

Isolosophy wrote:Premise 1: Freedom is absence of obstacles from achieving our own will
Freedom is achieving will. Having it. Getting it. The obstacles to acquiring it are a separate issue. They are simply the things which must be overcome if one wants to have will (freedom), and they will always be there. In fact, obstacles are necessary to achieving will, for will is acquired by overcoming obstacles. If there is nothing to overcome, then there is no opportunity to acquire will. So the absence of obstacles have nothing to do with freedom, and, in fact, are a necessary prerequisite for acquiring it. Freedom is acquiring the power (will) to overcome obstacles. And this is quite impossible if there are no obstacles to overcome in the first place.
Premise 2: Education and knowledge broaden our notion of possibility
Yep. Self-evident truth.
Premise 3: Our notion of possibility creates our will
No, not at all. Being aware of possibilities only creates the desire to overcome any obstacles which hinder realizing those possibilities, i.e. it can create the motive to acquire will. But actually getting will entails overcoming certain obstacles in our path.
Premise 4: More will entails more obstacles from achieving our own will
Quite the opposite. More will just means more power to overcome even bigger obstacles.
Conclusion: Education and knowledge decrease our degree of freedom
They often do, but they shouldn't. Ideally, they would just give us new tools and perspectives in our pursuit of freedom. But in practice they can actually make the situation worse. It all depends on the usefulness and practicalness of the particular "education" and "knowledge" under consideration. If one has more knowledge than one can make use of, then that knowledge can become a distraction to using the knowledge one can make use of. And this state of being "overeducated" is a typical problem for modern man.
If this argument is right, then should education and knowledge be decreased in favour of increasing our freedom? If not, why?
It's not right, but regardless it's not possible to decrease education and knowledge. To understand why, let me ask you: How would you go about decreasing it?
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021