Is anything ever rational?
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm
Is anything ever rational?
Rationality, I believe is impossible, because of all that we don't know. This has probably been said many times over, but I would like to see if I understand the argument. We can never act rationally, because we cannot know all of the consequences of our actions. An example: I am driving and I see a child run into the street. I turn hard and I end up hitting a second child I did not see. I did not have knowledge of the second child, so I could not have acted rationally to avoid the child. But, there could always be another child I do not know about, so how could I ever act rationally? I believed I was acting rationally when I swerved away from the first child, but I was only hitting another.
Because we can never obtain full knowledge, we can never act rationally. Also, because we can never have full knowledge, is all action valueless? If we don't know the consequences of our actions how can they be judged. No action can be judged or interpreted as bad or good, if the consequences when the action took place were unknown. If all actions are not rational and do not have any value, why do people continue to place values everywhere?
- Sy Borg
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15004
- Joined: December 16th, 2013, 9:05 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
It's a blend of of knowledge and understanding that can at least help us make more informed and, thus, more rational decisions.
- LuckyR
- Moderator
- Posts: 7940
- Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am
Re: Is anything ever rational?
As opposed to Greta's critique, to me this is an issue of perspective. From the perspective of the subject all possible knowledge is irrelevant. All that is relevant is what is known at the time of decision making. It doesn't matter that to an outside, omniscient observer that the subject only knows a small subset of the possible relevant data points at the time of decision making.Maxcady10001 wrote:Besides numbers, what can ever be rational? Is any decision rational? Is our behavior ever rational? Rational, meaning logical and of sound judgement.
Rationality, I believe is impossible, because of all that we don't know. This has probably been said many times over, but I would like to see if I understand the argument. We can never act rationally, because we cannot know all of the consequences of our actions. An example: I am driving and I see a child run into the street. I turn hard and I end up hitting a second child I did not see. I did not have knowledge of the second child, so I could not have acted rationally to avoid the child. But, there could always be another child I do not know about, so how could I ever act rationally? I believed I was acting rationally when I swerved away from the first child, but I was only hitting another.
Because we can never obtain full knowledge, we can never act rationally. Also, because we can never have full knowledge, is all action valueless? If we don't know the consequences of our actions how can they be judged. No action can be judged or interpreted as bad or good, if the consequences when the action took place were unknown. If all actions are not rational and do not have any value, why do people continue to place values everywhere?
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
To Greta, I see any claim to rationality as a claim to perfection, perfect knowledge in the moment of decision making. But, if objectively no one is rational, does everyone become rational? Because if we say the only information that is relevant is the information known at the time, then everyone is always behaving rationally, whatever they are doing. Does everyone become objectively rational, because no one is objectively rational?
-
- Posts: 5161
- Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
- Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various
Re: Is anything ever rational?
Rationality = use of logic and reason soundly & reasonably to the best of one's knowledge and achieving optimality.Maxcady10001 wrote:In response to Greta, a claim to rationality is, I believe a claim to perfection. Subjectively, a claim to perfect information, from their perspective, when acting in the moment. I don't believe anyone can behave objectively rational, that is with all information.
Perfection by is an ideal, is theoretical and by default is an impossibility in reality.
For example if a patient died due to unforeseen elements but if the doctor has done his best rationally as a professional [as generally expected] there is no negligence. In this case, the doctor is also being objectively rational as conditioned by his professional duties as determined by the American Medical Association.
Btw, objectivity is intersubjectivity, there is no absolute independent objectivity.
- Burning ghost
- Posts: 3065
- Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am
Re: Is anything ever rational?
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
-
- Posts: 251
- Joined: May 2nd, 2017, 10:10 am
Re: Is anything ever rational?
It is irrational to plunge a dagger into your heart if you want to continue living
It is rational to plunge a dagger into your heart if your goal is to end your life
In this sense, you could reach your pursuit of perfection in some instances, or perhaps rationality is "reasonable", "sensible", "agreeable" and so on. Then rationality becomes as much about the person judging your behaviour as anything else and likewise:
It is rational to plunge a dagger into your heart because it is best to escape this hopeless world, life isn't worth the trouble
It is irrational to plunge a dagger into your heart because the world has so much to offer you and life is worth living
There are more definitions of "rational" but all of them allow for things to be "truly rational", I think, because they all allow for interpretation.
-
- Posts: 10339
- Joined: June 15th, 2011, 5:53 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
Rational = the conclusion follows logically from the premise.
So the outcome of a rational argument or decision is only as good as the input.
Or as they say in computing: garbage in, garbage out.
- Burning ghost
- Posts: 3065
- Joined: February 27th, 2016, 3:10 am
Re: Is anything ever rational?
Is anything ever rational?Maxcady10001 wrote:In response to Burning Ghost, it depends on what kind of information you possess. if you believe everyone you meet will attempt to kill you it may be rational to kill them first. It really depends on the reality you live in, if you live in an apocalyptic world or some kind of zombie planet, every person you meet may be trying to kill you, so a rational person may kill them first. I don't know when you will read this, as it is currently 4:50 am
ans: It depends.
So you think it is rational to kill everyone? There you go then! You've answered your own question ... what was the point of posting it?
-
- Posts: 392
- Joined: September 29th, 2017, 4:59 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
- Termin
- New Trial Member
- Posts: 8
- Joined: November 19th, 2014, 3:06 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
-
- Posts: 460
- Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm
Re: Is anything ever rational?
Bringing us to the point of Judaku, who illustrates the subjectivity of rationality. Because of the subjectivity of rationality it is impossible for there to be any objectively rational way of saying or doing anything.
In response to Burning Ghost, I have not answered my question, as I just imagined a scenario where killing everyone you meet could be the most rational way to behave, but it is impossible for me to know the most rational way to behave because I cannot behave objectively rational. It may be more rational to hide, or take your own life in that apocalyptic situation.
In response to Steve3007, I dont think a person can ever be objectively rational because all of the required input to be objectively rational can never be obtained. I could tell you at exactly 7:59 p.m a woman will show up at your house and she will try to kill you. You could call the police and have them surround the house, but she shows up with a rocket launcher and destroys you and the house. It could have played out any possible way but you would not have been objectively rational because you could never receive the proper input to behave rationally. What if instead, you left home and stayed in the police station, but she staked out your house waiting for you to leave and blew up the police station. Or what if she was a police officer and while you were there she got you then and you just saved her the trouble of going to your house. Or what if she told me to tell you this and she shows up 2 minutes after I leave. You can never behave objectively rational, although that example is ridiculous, you can just look at the man driving the car example in the first post.
In response to Chili, it does seem as though most of philosophy focusing what is usually considered trivial, but the meaning of which is substantial.
Let me know if what I said didn't make sense.
I wrote this 7pm dont know when anyone else will see it, someone else may have posted something.
- Atreyu
- Posts: 1737
- Joined: June 17th, 2014, 3:11 am
- Favorite Philosopher: P.D. Ouspensky
- Location: Orlando, FL
Re: Is anything ever rational?
2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month
Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023
Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023