Any materialists or naturalists here?

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jeffersin
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Re: Any materialists or naturalists here?

Post by jeffersin » December 23rd, 2017, 9:14 pm

Atreyu wrote:
November 6th, 2017, 8:14 pm
Count Lucanor wrote:I am a materialist, which means I subscribe to this view:

"...a form of philosophical monism which holds that matter is the fundamental substance in nature, and that all things, including mental aspects and consciousness, are results of material interactions.

In contrast to idealism, materialism concedes the primacy of material, not consciousness. Which means, material exists before consciousness, material creates and determines consciousness, not vice versa. Materialists believe that material is the ultimate origin of the existing world, and they aim to explain the world via materialistic reasons.
" (Wikipedia)
Interesting. Because I could also call myself a "materialist", however, I strongly disagree with the above assertion.

When I say I am a "materialist", I mean that I accept the general idea that there is some kind of matter/material behind all phenomenon. So, in my view, there is matter involved in psychic processes like thought and awareness. And if "spirits" exist, they would also be composed of some kind of matter.

However, I wouldn't call matter "fundamental", nor would I say you can explain consciousness solely via material interactions, and I certainly wouldn't say that matter gives rise to consciousness, nor determines it. I would also oppose calling matter "the ultimate origin".

In my view conscious forces must take precedence over mechanical forces in explaining any "ultimate causation". The Universe is a conscious entity before it is just a "bunch of stuff"...
Your views here are inconsistent. If materialism entails the idea that there is always some kind of matter behind any given phenomenon, then psychic phenomenon will have matter behind it. Yet you deny that matter is fundamental, either metaphysically or epistemically. No materialist would say, "conscious forces take precedence over mechanical forces in explaining any 'ultimate causation'," unless you held something like Margaret Cavendish's panpsychism. But in her view, conscious stuff is wholly material; but unlike other materialists, like Thomas Hobbes, she doesn't think matter is mechanical.

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Greta
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Re: Any materialists or naturalists here?

Post by Greta » December 23rd, 2017, 9:36 pm

Ironically we routinely deal with the non-physical, aka the informational. Hardware and software, things and their changing configuration over time. It appears that information and energy are intrinsically entwined; with each intimately impacting upon the other.

Is there is "stuff" that is not related to this play between form and state? Maybe in another universe, although it seems that if the multiverse is true, then different universes could conceivably impact on one another.

Burning ghost
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Re: Any materialists or naturalists here?

Post by Burning ghost » December 26th, 2017, 1:33 am

"Any materialists or naturalists here?"

YES!!

I love to buy new clothes whenever I have money ... but I never wear them ;)
AKA badgerjelly

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