Earth if it Was up to Me

[Gulnara]

Lately I figured that the way our planet is is an outrage. When we first learn about Earth, we never object, we take things as they are. No one ever said, why there are such enormous bodies of impanatrable water, the oceans? Why are there places where people can hardly live???
If it was up to me, our planet would not have oceans, what a waste of space. It would have one continent spread all over with enormous amount of rivers and lakes and gaizers. I want planet to be completely walkable and drivable. I do not want to need an ocean cruiser or an airplane to reach far lands. If it was upto me, our planet would not have deserts, another waste of space, nor would it have tall mountains. What is your vision for our planet if it was up to you?

[Steve3007]

The opposing views of two philosophers on the subject of making the planet completely drivable:

Joni Mitchell:

"They paved paradise and put up a parking lot."

Alan Partridge:

"A song in which she complains that they “paved paradise to put up a parking lot” – a measure which actually would have alleviated traffic congestion on the outskirts of paradise. Something which Joni singularly fails to point out, perhaps because it doesn’t quite fit in with her blinkered view of the world."

Yes, I guess a completely drivable planet might have some advantages. But we'd also have to do some serious meteorological management, as oceans and mountains define the Earth's climate. Those rivers and lakes will need water to fall out of the sky to feed them.

[Albert Tatlock]

Lately I figured that the way our planet is is an outrage.

Have you made a formal complaint about it?

When we first learn about Earth, we never object, we take things as they are.

To whom, exactly, would we address our objections?

No one ever said, why there are such enormous bodies of impanatrable water, the oceans?

I think it's got something to do with all those marine creatures having somewhere to live.

If it was up to me, our planet would not have oceans,

What about all the people who like to holiday at the coast?

What is your vision for our planet if it was up to you?

I think Steve3007 might have been onto something when he proposed a square Earth.

[Gulnara]

Exactly, planet can have different shape or even be in a form of a very long ribbon, where on two sides of the street clearly the end of the world, separated by the fence.

[Burning ghost]

Personally I like the idea of hard to reach places and opportunities of exploration - that said I get your point and I could imagine some very interesting interstellar sci-fi novel springing from this where a species evolves in a land so easy to explore they simply become unable to see anything else ... now frame this interstellar vehicle as being the actual Earth and start to worry. I think many of the problems of today's world are firmly bedded in our belief of control over the environment and that many people are shockingly blind to that fact that if the power went down tomorrow and all communications was shut off, the whole world would quickly become an unexplored territory VERY quickly. Could you cope with this?

[Gulnara]

Personally I like the idea of hard to reach places and opportunities of exploration - that said I get your point and I could imagine some very interesting interstellar sci-fi novel springing from this where a species evolves in a land so easy to explore they simply become unable to see anything else ... now frame this interstellar vehicle as being the actual Earth and start to worry. I think many of the problems of today's world are firmly bedded in our belief of control over the environment and that many people are shockingly blind to that fact that if the power went down tomorrow and all communications was shut off, the whole world would quickly become an unexplored territory VERY quickly. Could you cope with this?

It seems what humans do lately is to separate themselves from the environment that created them.

[Count Lucanor]

I would have Earth shaped like a doughnut. Geography would remain more or less the same, but it would be interesting to see how its rotation and relative position to the sun would create a complex distribution of daily shades, seasons and climate patterns. Also, people living in the inward portion of the ring would have magnificent sky views of the other half in front of them.

[Burning ghost]

Gulnara -

Yes and no.

In one sense our understanding has expanded drastically. I think we've always been somewhat disconnected from the environment because we have to be in order to understand it and ourselves.

I do agree with you though in the sense you express it I think. But I would say this is likely a lull between the more fuller integration of technology which will hopefully give us a wider ground within which to understand our connection to the environment rather than as something to be overcome.

[Sy Borg]

Logically there may be planets elsewhere that are even more ideal for life than Earth, if that is possible. It is hard to imagine. The deserts and oceans have shifted around over history, and continue to change today.

While much of the Earth is ocean and thus inconvenient for humans, even this watery dominance of the Earth's surface doesn't reach inland areas, many of which are too dry and hot for most life to prosper.

Ideally a larger planet would have more resources, but the gravity would be much greater and impede possible space exploration, prevent the construction of tall buildings and long bridges. It would be limiting to the pace and capacity of development. Maybe effectively living completely in such a relatively closed system would result in progress in more subtle, personal ways?

[Steve3007]

Earth shaped like a doughnut is an interesting one. I presume the Count is suspending the normal law of gravity there. But if we don't do that, and assume that the doughnut has uniform density (but, like the cubic Earth, is strong enough not to collapse into a sphere under its own weight), I wonder what the gravitational pull would be like on that inner surface, which has that great view? I guess it would depend entirely on the major and minor radii of the doughnut.

In the limit of a a very large major radius compared to the minor radius (i.e. a very thin doughnut with a huge hole) then it would tend towards the same gravitational field as a cylinder. i.e we'd all happily walk around the circumference with gravity pulling us almost straight down. But the view of the other side would require a powerful telescope. It would be a thin line across the sky. In the other limit of a minor radius that is almost as big as the major radius (fat doughnut with a tiny hole) that view would be much more spectacular but the gravity would vary hugely as you walked from the outer to the inner surface. On the inner surface it would be almost zero.

But is there any doughnut shape in which you'd fall off the inner surface? I don't know.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:03 am to add the following --

Albert:

I think Steve3007 might have been onto something when he proposed a square Earth.

Cubic, Albert. Cubic. A square Earth? Why, that would be crazy.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:23 am to add the following --

Thinking about it: No. Of course not. There isn't any combination of major and minor doughnut radii in which you'd fall off the inner surface. There'd always be at least some gravitational pull, on the inner surface, towards the centre of the minor radius - the centre of the cylinder which curves around to form the doughnut.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:49 pm to add the following --

(From here on I am going to adopt a more compact spelling of the word donut.)

If the donut-Earth is spinning, then the centrifugal "force" on people standing on the outer-facing surface would be greater than that acting on the people standing on the inner-facing surface. But it would act against gravity, whereas on the inner-facing surface it would act with gravity. So it could compensate for the fact that the gravitational pull on the inner-facing surface is less (except in the limiting case of infinite major radius and finite minor radius).

So, given these three variables:

Major radius
Minor radius
Angular velocity (rate of spin)

there must be various different combinations of values for which the effective gravity on the inner-facing surface is equal to the effective gravity on the outer-facing surface.

But, I suspect that this is not true for any set of radii. Only for particular combinations.

It would be interesting to try to work out the entire set of radius combinations for which this works.

[Gulnara]

I would have Earth shaped like a doughnut. Geography would remain more or less the same, but it would be interesting to see how its rotation and relative position to the sun would create a complex distribution of daily shades, seasons and climate patterns. Also, people living in the inward portion of the ring would have magnificent sky views of the other half in front of them.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 8:26 pm to add the following --

In case with daughnut shaped Earth I wonder how it could affect tides?

[Count Lucanor]

Earth shaped like a doughnut is an interesting one. I presume the Count is suspending the normal law of gravity there. But if we don't do that, and assume that the doughnut has uniform density (but, like the cubic Earth, is strong enough not to collapse into a sphere under its own weight), I wonder what the gravitational pull would be like on that inner surface, which has that great view? I guess it would depend entirely on the major and minor radii of the doughnut.

In the limit of a a very large major radius compared to the minor radius (i.e. a very thin doughnut with a huge hole) then it would tend towards the same gravitational field as a cylinder. i.e we'd all happily walk around the circumference with gravity pulling us almost straight down. But the view of the other side would require a powerful telescope. It would be a thin line across the sky. In the other limit of a minor radius that is almost as big as the major radius (fat doughnut with a tiny hole) that view would be much more spectacular but the gravity would vary hugely as you walked from the outer to the inner surface. On the inner surface it would be almost zero.

But is there any doughnut shape in which you'd fall off the inner surface? I don't know.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 9:03 am to add the following --

Albert:

I think Steve3007 might have been onto something when he proposed a square Earth.

Cubic, Albert. Cubic. A square Earth? Why, that would be crazy.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:23 am to add the following --

Thinking about it: No. Of course not. There isn't any combination of major and minor doughnut radii in which you'd fall off the inner surface. There'd always be at least some gravitational pull, on the inner surface, towards the centre of the minor radius - the centre of the cylinder which curves around to form the doughnut.

-- Updated Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:49 pm to add the following --

(From here on I am going to adopt a more compact spelling of the word donut.)

If the donut-Earth is spinning, then the centrifugal "force" on people standing on the outer-facing surface would be greater than that acting on the people standing on the inner-facing surface. But it would act against gravity, whereas on the inner-facing surface it would act with gravity. So it could compensate for the fact that the gravitational pull on the inner-facing surface is less (except in the limiting case of infinite major radius and finite minor radius).

So, given these three variables:

Major radius
Minor radius
Angular velocity (rate of spin)

there must be various different combinations of values for which the effective gravity on the inner-facing surface is equal to the effective gravity on the outer-facing surface.

But, I suspect that this is not true for any set of radii. Only for particular combinations.

It would be interesting to try to work out the entire set of radius combinations for which this works.

Oh, wao, it is turning to be more interesting than I thought. Let's put a moon in the center of the donut and let the sci-fi roll...

[Steve3007]

A moon in the centre? Mmmm. Trouble is, the centre would be a point of unstable gravitational equilibrium. A bit like a Lagrange point. So the moon would tend to leave that point and crash onto the inner surface of the donut.

-- Updated Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:02 am to add the following --

Gulnara: Tides? I thought you didn't want any oceans?

-- Updated Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:18 am to add the following --

There could be an artificial moon in the centre with rockets on it that constantly correct any drift away from the centre. But, depending on the dimensions of the moon and of the donut, there may also be a problem of the gravitational pull of the donut on the outer layers of the moon. If the moon isn't made from donut-stuff (i.e. very strong material which resists all attempts to make it collapse under its own gravity) but is made of normal moon-stuff then the outer layers might lift off and coat the inner surface of the donut. Like powdered sugar.

-- Updated Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:21 am to add the following --

If it mixed with Gulnara's oceans, it might form a glaze.

-- Updated Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:31 am to add the following --

I thought for a minute, there, that the glaze might be salty, impairing the flavour. But then I remembered that in order to stay donut-shaped the donut-Earth would have to be made from super-hard material. So the water on the surface wouldn't be able to chemically combine with minerals in it. So perhaps the oceans would consist of fresh water. Phew.

[Count Lucanor]

A moon in the centre? Mmmm. Trouble is, the centre would be a point of unstable gravitational equilibrium. A bit like a Lagrange point. So the moon would tend to leave that point and crash onto the inner surface of the donut.

Now we know what that Earth's religion will be.

[Steve3007]

Moon-worship? Donut-worship?

The latter is already practised in some parts of the world.

-- Updated Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:17 pm to add the following --

Interesting fact: there are 536 branches of Dunkin Donuts in New York City. More than any other store. The are considerably more churches and synagogues than that, but not as many mosques.