Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Steve3007
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Steve3007 »

Kathyd wrote:I've always found it comical how guys joke around about their own sexuality, particularly when it comes to the topic of self-control. I mean, really?! If you and Steve couldn't masturbate several times a day you might go mad? :lol: I honestly would like to see a study done on this, just out of curiosity.
Yes, I think a study would be interesting too. Given that it's a naturally interesting subject, surely studies must already have been attempted? I might have another look.

I think one of the reasons for joking about intimate subjects like sex is because, as a broad generalization, men tend to find it harder to talk to each other about intimate, personal, emotional subjects than women do. Joking is often a very effective safety mechanism because it allows you to say things that you actually mean seriously but which you can dismiss as a joke if people start slowly backing away with frozen smiles on their faces.

As Eduk said, it's not about literally going bark-at-the-moon mad (although I bet an interesting discussion could be had about the origins of werewolf stories in human sexuality). Anyway, in my experience again, it slows down a lot as one gets older. Personally, I can go without any kind of sexual outlet for weeks at a time now. I couldn't have imagined that was possible 30 years ago. I was discussing this with an old school friend just recently. We were having the familiar old middle-aged people's discussion about the disappearance of sex in relationships and whether it matters.
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily call masturbation "human nature".
It's as much human, and other animals, nature as anything possibly could be.
Sex, yes. But I'm not sure now "natural" it is to have sex with yourself!
Desipite the fact that it's often referred to as "having sex with yourself", it isn't really is it? That's just a figure of speech.
After all, according to the Scriptures it is a sin, and I think we'd all agree it's a rather self-indulgent behavior that ideally we would not do.
As I've said, I don't agree with that. I agree with the parallel that Eduk draws with chocolate. Eating several large bars of chocolate is self-indulgent specifically because it is unhealthy.

And obviously if someone else has written down on a piece of paper that something is a sin (and referred to that particular piece of writing as "scripture") that doesn't mean I automatically believe them. You shouldn't believe everything that's written down, regardless of the word that is used to describe that writing or of your religious convictions. Even people with religious faith don't believe everything they're told, as evidenced by the number of Catholics who happily ignore their church's prohibition on contraception because they presumably understand, without having to explicitly say it, that forbidding contraception is just something the head of the Catholic church has to say, for reasons of tradition, but everyone knows it can be ignored because it's self-evidently mad.

Greta wrote:The effects of circumcision certainly don't seem to have created significant dysfunction in men; no character differences between the cut and uncut have been observed to the best of my knowledge, so it would seem that subsequent development swamps the early trauma. Still, theoretically, it seems impossible to imagine how heavy surgical procedures performed without adequate pain relief - during the most formative time of life aside from gestation - would not add an element of fearfulness to the person's character.
This is an interesting philosophical point that, strangely, seems to me to be related to the separate subject of human copying/teleportation discussed in other threads. As you say, it seems likely that the experience is extremely painful and traumatic, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of long term harm. Is this because childhood pain is forgotten as we grow? Does this make it more acceptable? Is memory of pain a crucial ingredient of that pain? Suppose I was in agonizing pain 5 seconds ago but my memory of it was then completely wiped. Suppose that happens regularly, every 5 minutes. Does it matter? I don't know.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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ultimately justified by their obvious long-term health benefits.
Given that I believe you mentioned "further complications" earlier I guess we'll have to take your word for it.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Kathyd wrote: December 10th, 2017, 6:08 am
LuckyR wrote: In 2017, pretty much everyone is using local anesthesia, just sayin.
Yes, I was also concerned about putting him through all that pain without any anesthesia, so I asked my sister about it. She said that anesthetics aren't really that effective for circumcisions, and that a local anesthetic is normally only used for show, to alleviate any concerns from the parents. She admitted that it's a dirty secret in the industry that the anesthesia is only for appearance purposes, and that if it wasn't a circumcision would take about an hour, because it takes at least 1/2 hour for any anethesia to really be effective. But she said it wasn't cost effective to wait, which is why it only usually takes about 10 minutes. She said the circumcision procedure begins right after the anesthetic is applied (as you can see in the video link below), which makes its application completely "cosmetic".

I then asked her how painful it would be, so she had me watch a video of her first circumcision which she posted on YouTube so she could explain the procedure to me step by step.
She told me that the first part, where the foreskin is separated from the rest of the penile skin, would not have to be done on my son, because by his age his foreskin has already done that naturally. She said that was a good thing because that part was very painful. However, she said everything else would apply to an older child, and she showed me the parts that were the most painful. She said the most painful part by far was the removal of residual tissue after the initial cut, the part where she is scraping it off with what looks like a sort of long needle-like pick (which really does look like it would be painful!). She told me that she's actually seen a lot of babies even pass out during this part from the shock, it's so painful. But she said some other parts of the procedure are also almost as painful, mainly the parts where she's cutting - both the initial cut done with the big scissors as well as the final cut done with a scalpel. She warned me that the pain he might feel during these parts of the procedure might be "excruciating", and that I probably would not want to be within earshot while it was going on (which I obviously agreed with wholeheartedly!). The other parts, however, she said were not nearly as painful.

After watching the video I must admit I had second thoughts, but ultimately as a mother I had to make my decision based on the long-term outlook, just as we do when we decide to give our babies vaccinations or other painful shots which, while painful in the moment, are ultimately justified by their obvious long-term health benefits.
Well, not to be rude but either your "sister" is pretty poor at giving nerve blocks or "she" doesn't have the experience level claimed.

I have personally done circs in less than 15 minutes (including the nerve block) where the kid slept through the whole thing (including two needle pokes in the penis). More commonly the kids cry, BUT the crying starts when they are restrained, well before the procedure actually starts and most times it doesn't change much during the procedure itself.

You may or may not believe me, but in 2017 a large percentage of the time parents are there to witness the whole thing and I can tell you having a son who sleeps through their circ makes a lot of dads (inappropriately) overly proud.

Of course I am talking a newborn circ. For an eleven year old, I would seek out Anesthesia assistance.

As to Internet Urban Myths like babies passing out, I am of a vintage where we used to do circs with nothing at all, and I never observed nor heard of such a thing.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Steve3007 wrote: As Eduk said, it's not about literally going bark-at-the-moon mad (although I bet an interesting discussion could be had about the origins of werewolf stories in human sexuality). Anyway, in my experience again, it slows down a lot as one gets older. Personally, I can go without any kind of sexual outlet for weeks at a time now. I couldn't have imagined that was possible 30 years ago. I was discussing this with an old school friend just recently. We were having the familiar old middle-aged people's discussion about the disappearance of sex in relationships and whether it matters.

And obviously if someone else has written down on a piece of paper that something is a sin (and referred to that particular piece of writing as "scripture") that doesn't mean I automatically believe them. You shouldn't believe everything that's written down, regardless of the word that is used to describe that writing or of your religious convictions. Even people with religious faith don't believe everything they're told, as evidenced by the number of Catholics who happily ignore their church's prohibition on contraception because they presumably understand, without having to explicitly say it, that forbidding contraception is just something the head of the Catholic church has to say, for reasons of tradition, but everyone knows it can be ignored because it's self-evidently mad.
Actually, Steve, I think you're mixing the issues here. I only brought up Church teaching because historically circumcision was about dedicating yourself or your child to God. Withholding sexual pleasure has always been a means of showing your dedication to God, as evidenced in all religions. Every religion has their priests, monks, nuns, or even just meditation practitioners "cleansing" their bodies of any distractions. I think this is because sex is such a natural distraction to our walk with God, and also because it's man's greatest pleasure. Sacrificing this pleasure for God shows that you are putting God first, above all "earthly" pleasures, even sex, which is what God wants. The Bible says you're supposed to love God "with all your heart and soul", and he is supposed to come first, even over your husband or wife. Naturally, I considered this when making my decision, as I like the idea of dedication to God, but it was not the most important reason, hence my listing of it as #2. I just felt like if there was already a good practical reason for doing it, then the religious aspect was simply a bonus. As a mother and a Christian, I like the idea of dedicating my child to God.

But as I said, my #1 reason was simply practical, and really had nothing to do with church teaching. I understand that masturbation is "normal" and a "natural" outlet for teen boys, and that it's not necessarily that "sinful", but I think that sometimes it leads to other problems and that it can become an obsessive habit, in which case I think that it should be dealt with, and anything that would help curtail it is a positive imho. And once I learned that circumcision actually began as a means of curtailing masturbation in teen boys (it originally had nothing to do with "health" or "cleanliness" or "appearance") and I thought about it, it made sense to me. I think it stands to reason that if it doesn't feel as good, a person will probably do it less. To me, that's really just common sense.
Steve3007 wrote: This is an interesting philosophical point that, strangely, seems to me to be related to the separate subject of human copying/teleportation discussed in other threads. As you say, it seems likely that the experience is extremely painful and traumatic, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of long term harm. Is this because childhood pain is forgotten as we grow? Does this make it more acceptable? Is memory of pain a crucial ingredient of that pain? Suppose I was in agonizing pain 5 seconds ago but my memory of it was then completely wiped. Suppose that happens regularly, every 5 minutes. Does it matter? I don't know.
Yes, I talked with my sister about this, and she assured me that studies have shown that babies don't remember the pain and there are no long-term "traumatic" effects. She said that after a few minutes of recovery time the endorphins kick in as a natural response to the pain and they forget all about it, it's like it never even happened.

Now obviously in the case of an older boy, like my son, he will remember. But she assured me that there would be no long-term trauma as she's done several older boys and some adults and this was never an issue.
LuckyR wrote: December 11th, 2017, 1:34 am Well, not to be rude but either your "sister" is pretty poor at giving nerve blocks or "she" doesn't have the experience level claimed.

I have personally done circs in less than 15 minutes (including the nerve block) where the kid slept through the whole thing (including two needle pokes in the penis). More commonly the kids cry, BUT the crying starts when they are restrained, well before the procedure actually starts and most times it doesn't change much during the procedure itself.

You may or may not believe me, but in 2017 a large percentage of the time parents are there to witness the whole thing and I can tell you having a son who sleeps through their circ makes a lot of dads (inappropriately) overly proud.

Of course I am talking a newborn circ. For an eleven year old, I would seek out Anesthesia assistance.

As to Internet Urban Myths like babies passing out, I am of a vintage where we used to do circs with nothing at all, and I never observed nor heard of such a thing.
Lucky, remember that this was her very first circumcision. She's a lot more experienced now, but this was the only video she had to show me. She even admitted to me that it was not done properly. She cut it a bit too far (she said that that last snip was a bit too much) which led to too much bleeding, as you can see in the video. She told me that that was common for practitioners without a lot of experience, which is why it's important to only have it done by experienced providers.

As far as babies sleeping through it, or it being an urban myth that they don't pass out from the pain, she told me that that is because of the nerve block, when the nurses have waited for it to kick in before beginning the procedure. She said that rarely happens, however, and you can see that that was how it was done in the video - the procedure started long before the nerve block had time to begin working. This is why the baby was screaming and crying throughout the entire video. It was actually hard to listen to, as he seemed to hardly be able to breathe at certain points he was crying so hard, especially during the part where she's scraping off the residual tissue. You cannot hear this on the video, as she had to remove the sound due to complaints, but I was able to watch the original video and I can assure you that there was no way this baby was going to sleep through this. And yes, the baby did pass out for a time, and she told me that that is very common. She said it's the body's natural way of dealing with the pain. You could tell because the crying suddenly stopped at the end of the scraping procedure and didn't begin again for about a minute. Then, it came back in spurts until she began poking him to insert the safety clip, at which point he began constantly screaming again. So apparently this is not just an urban myth, but she said that this could probably be avoided by allowing for the proper wait time after the application of the nerve block, which obviously you fortunately, and properly, do in your own practice.

Now, as far as looking into having him under anesthesia, I obviously agree, but my sister told me that in my case it simply wouldn't be very effective. She said that any nerve block would only be effective for about an hour, and that it would take about 1/2 hour to take effect. So the timing would simply be off. She said the most painful part of the actual circumcision, the "scraping" part, occurs during the first 15 mins, so the nerve block wouldn't even be applicable at that point. And she said the next most painful parts would occur after the nerve block wore off, because there would be about an hour delay between the regular circumcision and the additional stuff she's doing. So the nerve block would no longer be effective by the time she was snipping some of his lateral nerve branches and trimming up the edges of his glans, something she admitting to me was going to be "excruciatingly" painful. :cry:

But she told me that older boys and adults can deal with the pain much much better than infants do, so I shouldn't worry. She said that the pain afterwards should be minimal, and that after a few weeks or months the whole thing would just be a passing memory. She said she's done "several" adults and older boys, and that none of them have had any long-term complications or trauma from their experience.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Eduk »

leads to other problems
The number one thing which leads to problems is not masturbation it is unreasonable beliefs. Not proportioning belief to the evidence leads to all kinds of issues.
For example. Some people believe homosexuality is a sin. Some homosexuals believe themselves to be sinful. This kind of thinking has led some people to some very dark places. It is unfortunate as the simple fact is that a certain percentage of the population will be homosexual. This is a fact which is seen throughout the animal kingdom. It is the definition of natural behaviour. Whereas there is zero evidence that homosexuality is sinful.
Likewise there is zero evidence masturbation leads to problems and zero evidence that circumcision will effect the pleasure derived from masturbation. For example your son can buy some lube and trivially solve any friction issues.
To be honest the thought that my mother was so concerned about my masturbation would be enough to put me off masturbation quite a bit and I would look forward to leaving the house and distancing myself from my mother's obsessive behaviour (but that's just me).
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Kathyd wrote:I understand that masturbation is "normal" and a "natural" outlet for teen boys, and that it's not necessarily that "sinful", but I think that sometimes it leads to other problems and that it can become an obsessive habit, in which case I think that it should be dealt with, and anything that would help curtail it is a positive imho. And once I learned that circumcision actually began as a means of curtailing masturbation in teen boys (it originally had nothing to do with "health" or "cleanliness" or "appearance") and I thought about it, it made sense to me. I think it stands to reason that if it doesn't feel as good, a person will probably do it less. To me, that's really just common sense.
My view has developed in the opposite direction to the one expressed by you that I've highlighted in red above. Before reading this topic it had never occurred to me that male circumcision might originally have been done in order to reduce sexual pleasure. I thought that was only female circumcision. Therefore my objection to male circumcision wasn't particularly strong. Now I've learned that that is the motive, I see it as pretty much in the same league as FGM - female circumcision. Wholly wrong.

Obviously any activity can become a problem if it is done so often that it either affects health or gets in the way of other necessary activities. For example, that's true of over-eating, or drinking too much. But circumcision for this reason is morally equivalent to preemptively stapling someone's stomach, or somehow arranging it so that food doesn't taste as nice, just in case they start eating too much in later life. Mad, in my view.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Kathy, you haven't so far managed to come up with any reason why masturbation is unhealthy other than that "scripture" says so or that doing it might distract people from thinking about God. I can't help concluding from this that this is the only reason you have. I'm sure eating chocolate cake is also a distraction from thinking about God. And, unlike masturbation, it's also unhealthy. That means we should try not to eat huge amounts of chocolate cake. I can even see the sense in the periodic fasts that many religions have as traditional practices. But I can't see the sense in operating on children to make chocolate cake taste bad. That's just weird.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Eduk wrote: Likewise there is zero evidence masturbation leads to problems and zero evidence that circumcision will effect the pleasure derived from masturbation. For example your son can buy some lube and trivially solve any friction issues.
To be honest the thought that my mother was so concerned about my masturbation would be enough to put me off masturbation quite a bit and I would look forward to leaving the house and distancing myself from my mother's obsessive behaviour (but that's just me).
Well, I am not nosy and I'm certainly not trying to be "obsessive", but like I said, it wasn't' so much just the masturbating that bothered me, but rather some of the behavior associated with it, which is what I meant when I said "leads to problems". It may start off innocently, as just a means of relieving the tension, but once it becomes a habit I know that it leads to all sorts of inappropriate fantasies, which can then lead to inappropriate behavior, as the initial excitement from the experience fades. For example, look at all the nasty porn that's all over the internet, and which guys often purchase for a fee - videos depicting all sort of fetishes and other perversions, including sado-masochism and group sex, and even ones depicting rape and bestiality. What do you think guys are doing while they watch this disgusting stuff?? :shock:

So that is the kind if "problem" I'm concerned about it, and like I said, I have already seen things that disturbed me, like 'cartoon porn' and inappropriate pictures of family members on his computer, which I'm sure you'd agree is inappropriate for an 11 yo, so I feel justified in trying to nip the problem in the bud so to speak and do not feel like I'm being overly "obsessive". Any sensible mother would be concerned.

Now, as far as your argument that pleasure is not affected and my son could just buy some lube, I'm sorry but that just doesn't jibe with all my research nor my personal experience. There are countless articles about men who were circed as adults, and most all of them said masturbation was less pleasurable afterwards. Which makes perfect sense as the foreskin contains 3/4 of the total nerve tissue, so how could it not be less pleasurable with only 1/4 as many nerve endings??? Plus, there is no skin to play with so it's a lot more difficult to do it circumcised, which I would think would make it less appealing. And I've seen the difference first hand. My ex-bf was extremely difficult to get off manually or orally, but my husband goes through the roof with the slightest touch, and performing is incredibly easier with all of that skin to play with. The difference is like night and day, and all of my friends who have had both have reported the same experience. Plus, remember that my sister is going to remove about 1/2 of the lateral nerves right as they branch off from the main dorsal nerve, which theoretically should lead to another 50% reduction in sensitivity. The lack of lube is not the only reason it doesn't feel as good, it's also the removal of neural tissue and the keratinization of the glands over time without the protective layer of the foreskin. So I can't buy that just a "little lube" is going make that much of a difference afterwards.

Also, I know from personal experience that it's definitely less pleasurable from the woman's pov, and again, all of my friends have reported the same thing. Sex with a circumcised guy is abrasive, rough, and eventually even painful, and the g-spot is never hit, while sex with a uncut guy is slow and sensual, with the foreskin bunching up and hitting the g-spot perfectly every time (sorry if TMI! :oops: ). So while as a wife I'm glad my in-laws didn't circumcise my husband, as a mother naturally I would prefer him not being able to perform like that with a teenage girl! :shock: Just thinking about him getting his first girlfriend makes me quiver, and the last thing I need during his teenage years is him being known as the high school 'love god', lol. In fact, I even remember that the 'love god' at my high school ended up getting 2 girls pregnant!
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Everything you said is anecdotal. You have linked zero studies which back up any of your beliefs. Much of what you say may make 'sense' to you but it does not make sense to me.

Many people 'know' that homeopathy is effective. How would you argue against such a claim?
I would argue that the scientific consensus is that homeopathy has no efficacy and then I would link to a study. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10853874
I would argue that the scientific consensus is that circumcision does not effect sexual sensation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4498824/
Before reading this topic it had never occurred to me that male circumcision might originally have been done in order to reduce sexual pleasure.
Why would you believe that? Do you have any evidence?
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Unknown means unknown.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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For example

http://jim.shamlin.com/study/books/9904/03.html

Search for sunk cost. This is one of the unconscious influences we have working on us. It's to do with consistency and commitment. Basically we value things more highly the more we 'paid' for them. So there are many many initiation ceremonies the world over and through out time. The goal is to increase commitment to the group. Circumcision is very easily explained in this way. Although the act itself is entirely arbitrary.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

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Eduk wrote: http://www.historyofcircumcision.net/in ... &Itemid=54
This is more plausible to my mind.

I would argue that the scientific consensus is that circumcision does not effect sexual sensation. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4498824/

Before reading this topic it had never occurred to me that male circumcision might originally have been done in order to reduce sexual pleasure.

Why would you believe that? Do you have any evidence?
Well, apparently you didn't read all of the first link you yourself quoted above, because the evidence is right there.

"45 BCE Philo (c.15 BCE to c.50 CE), a Jewish philosopher in Alexandria, defends circumcision on the ground that it is a valuable curb on sexual indulgence:
"The legislators thought good to dock the organ which ministers to such intercourse, thus making circumcision the symbol of excision of excessive and superfluous pleasure."

"12th century AD: Moses ben Maimon (Maimonides, 1135-1204), Jewish physician, writes Guide for the perplexed, in which he explains that circumcision was test of faith, the main purpose of which was injure the penis and discourage sexual indulgence. "

"17th century AD: William Harvey (1578-1657), the discoverer of the circulation of the blood, states that circumcised men have less pleasure in sex. Giovanni Sinibaldi identifies the clitoris as the functional equivalent of the foreskin and as each the main source of sexual pleasure for women and men respectively. "

"1865: Aristotle’s Master-piece, a popular sex manual throughout the eighteenth century, states that the main source of male sexual pleasure arises from the friction of the foreskin moving back and forth over the glans. "

"1830's, France: French physician Claude-Francois Lallemand introduces circumcision as treatment for masturbation in boys and "spermatorrhoea" (involuntary loss of semen) in men. Suggests widespread circumcision of young boys as preventive of masturbation. Ideas not taken up in Europe, but catch on in Britain and USA."

"1850's : James Copland, in Dictionary of practical medicine, popularises the idea of circumcision as a means of discouraging masturbation among boys."

"1860: Athol Johnson practises and urges circumcision to cure masturbation in boys. ("On an injurious habit occasionally met with in infancy and early childhood", Lancet, 7 April 1860, pp. 344-5) "

"1860's: Circumcision as means of curing or preventing masturbation in boys becomes widespread medical dogma in Britain. For the next 100 years (and in the USA 150 years) doctors insist it is a scientifically proven medical fact that the foreskin is harmful to the physical and moral health males and must be surgically removed before they even become conscious that it was ever there. "

"1870 (USA): In the USA Lewis A. Sayre applies theories of Lallemand and announces that circumcision cures "paralysis" (polio), epilepsy and masturbation, setting off the medical craze for "therapeutic" circumcision. Calls for universal circumcision of male infants. "

"1870's (Australia): George Beaney, Melbourne doctor, popularises the theories of Acton on the harmfulness of masturbation and urges curative and preventive circumcision. "

"1877 (USA): John Harvey Kellogg MD (1852-1943) publishes the first edition of Plain facts for old and young, in which he promotes circumcision as a cure for masturbation. "

So, as is plain to see, circumcision most certainly was begun primarily to curtail masturbation, at least in some cultures at certain times, but particularly here in the U.S. It's also obvious that, at least historically, the "scientific consensus" was that the foreskin's main function was the pleasure and facilitation of sex, and that removing it would reduce sexual pleasure. Next time, you might want to read your own links, lol. :D

I think a lot of the problem is simply that normally guys have only experienced it one way or the other, so there is no way for them to know how it could be different. Also, I've noticed that guys have really big egos in this area, and on top of that all they seem to care about is sex, and it seems to me that sometimes circumcised guys just don't like to admit that they might be missing out on some pleasure, or that they might not be as good in bed, even tho all the evidence says otherwise.

Plus, you can ask any woman who has given a hj to both types and they will tell you there's an enormous difference. We would know because giving a hj is basically like masturbating your lover, so the difference in pleasure can be easily seen just by watching their reactions. And any woman will tell you the difference is literally like night and day. An uncut guy will literally go through the roof at the slightest touch or caress, while a cut guy will just sit there and nonchalantly ask you to do it harder. I even remember actually getting tired and frustrated because it was so difficult to get my ex-bf off, and when I compare it to my experiences with my husband, I actually sometimes feel sorry for him when I remember it. And you can get an uncut guy off in a few minutes if you want to, while with a cut guy it can sometimes take hours, if you succeed at all. And the same is true for oral as well. Now, with intercourse, it's not as clear. I couldn't tell if my ex didn't like intercourse as much as my husband. But I do know that there was definitely a reduction in pleasure on my end, and everyone I know who has had both have reported the same experiences as I had. Sex with my ex was so abrasive and rough, even when I used lots of lube, that it was actually painful after awhile and not once did I ever 'O'. It actually hurt to have sex with him! :( But with my husband it feels so much more smooth and sensual, and I literally have multiple toe-curling Os with him every time. (not to brag, but it's the truth! :lol: )

So based on my experience, and the experience of everyone I've talked about this with, I'm confident that having my son circumcised is going to lead to a reduction in the amount of pleasure associated with masturbating, and hopefully, to a corresponding decrease in frequency. And I'm also confident that when it comes to intercourse that it will at least lead to a reduction in pleasure for his partner, which, if he's stupid enough to have premarital sex, ideally will also lead a corresponding decrease in frequency.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by LuckyR »

Advice to the thread as a whole:

1- Don't seek out a pediatrician for an adult topic or procedure

2- Seek out a surgeon if someone you care about is getting surgery (in this case a urologist)

3- No one cares if your kid gets circed, BUT if you are going to do it, do it as a newborn

Good day and good luck.
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Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Steve3007 »

So, Kathyd, you seem to have explained at great length here that your motivation for doing this to your son is identical to the motives of people who perform female genital mutilation (FGM) - to reduce sexual pleasure in the belief that this will make the individual less promiscuous. i.e. control.

As I said earlier, this is a surprise to me. Previously I'd thought it was pretty much unrelated to FGM and that the only physical justification given (as opposed to appeals to tradition) was hygiene (and that therefore the introduction of regular washing in the modern world had made it obsolete for that reason). This is quite an eye opener! Would you say that this attitude of yours towards the future sex lives of children is commonplace in your culture?

Another thought: If it were possible to perform an operation to remove the taste buds from the tongue which respond to sweet tastes, do you think we should do it? Sugar is very unhealthy and most of us eat way too much of it. I recall from my high school biology that these particular taste buds are on the tip of the tongue. Perhaps all young children should have an operation to remove the tip of the tongue? Good idea?
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Circumcision. Seeking opinions based on personal experiences

Post by Eduk »

Sigh. Still anecdotal. I guess you believe the earth is flat and vaccines cause autism too.

It is interesting that you completely ignore one link. And cherry pick from another. Are you even self aware?
Unknown means unknown.
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