Social anxiety

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Spectrum
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Spectrum »

Maxcady10001 wrote:With that analogy it is very easy, for me at least, to fit in social anxiety in the place of a conscience. Why couldn't social anxiety act in the exact same way as a conscience when dealing with the morality department? Social anxiety would also prevent a person from going against typically moral behavior, the same as a conscience. It only becomes a question of I will or will not be negatively judged for this action.
From a general understanding of social anxiety, it would be an output or outcome of the faculty of conscience.
For example inferences and conclusions are outcome and output of the faculty of reason. Inferences and conclusions are not the faculty of reason per se.

For example, if a person happened to steal or commit an moral evil, the faculty of conscience will generate guilt in the person. The guilt generated in that person will make him/her anxious in front of others, i.e. social anxiety.

If a person has murdered someone, and if that person has an active faculty of conscience, he/she will have social anxiety just in case someone recognized him/her or for whatever reasons.
If that murderer is a psychopath, thus do not have an active faculty of conscience, then he/she will feel no guilt and thus no feelings of social anxieties.

In addition, people can suffer from social anxieties from many other psychological reasons and not necessary triggered by the faculty of conscience.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Georgeanna
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Georgeanna »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Georgeanna
Then how would you define conscience, if not feelings of right or wrong?
Spectrum
Exactly why can't the conscience that we experience simply be social anxiety? I reject your claim that a conscience triggers social anxiety. The emotional stimuli must come first, before consciously conceiving a "right" or "wrong" feeling. And, as the generally accepted definition of a conscience is a feeling of "right" or "wrong" , this feeling must be the result of some emotional stimuli, and there isn't a better one than social anxiety, I don't believe there is a conscience only social anxiety.
LuckyR
Sociopaths and psychopaths are the result of a "disfunctional" or "abnormal" brain. Hence, a lack of empathy and social anxiety. You may say sociopaths and psychopaths do suffer from social anxiety, but there is a difference in the frustration that comes from not understanding social interactions, and the plight of the socially anxious dreading the weight placed on these interactions.

Also, the quote I gave was the only time conscience as social anxiety was mentioned throughout the book.
Let's imagine the train carriage scenario in which you have a mix of passengers. Commuters, school children, families on holiday, day trippers, single people - all of different age, gender, nationality.

Each have their own conscience, at various stages of development.
Each have their own set of values; witness a family with unruly children, screaming with no concern for others v the well-behaved and polite. It can be seen as an opportunity for early training; parental authority as first base for suppression of instincts for the sake of social life.
The conscience can develop from this internalized authority voice to one's own. Self-knowledge and self-mastery results from both emotion and reason. A core set of personal standards, based on reflection, which can make a continuing claim on our mind and actions.
So, I would argue that conscience has both theoretical and practical components. We can act contrary to our conscience, perhaps in a life-threatening crisis situation where self-preservation is a higher priority. Some might even act without thinking, with total survival instinct.

Back to the train.
Each have their own feelings about the journey.
Some sit enjoying the experience of travel; others are more anxious - fearful of all that can go wrong. Preparing themselves for all eventualities - plan B, C, D.

Feelings can range from bored, disinterested to excited and engaged. All might have varying degrees of social anxiety.
Then, an aggressor enters the carriage. As social animals we might each have adapted ideas on how to cope.
Ignore, engage, report - depending on context.

Instinctual fear coexists with conscience. Specific and prompt action means that we don't have time to reason as in sofa ponderings. However, judgement tells us what we would like to have done - be a hero, stand up for your principles. And we might feel guilt at not having acted in accordance with our conscience.

For a more in-depth study of conscience see:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/conscience/

-- Updated November 17th, 2017, 12:04 pm to add the following --

Another interpretation of Conscience.

A humanist perspective:
If I talk about ‘what my conscience tells me to do,’ I’m referring to ‘what I think I ought to do, all things considered.’ What we call the ‘dictates of conscience’ come from our thinking, reasoning and deliberating. The notion of conscience provides a shorthand way of referring to moral beliefs. The ‘voice of conscience’ is something we have constructed for ourselves, taking into account personal experience, feelings, social teaching, scientific findings and relevant religious teachings. A humanist notion of conscience allows for its individuality by stressing the thought and deliberation that construct conclusions from these varied sources. For humanists there will be no inconsistency in using all of them, provided that none is presumed to provide the last, definitive word.

The voice of conscience is not divinely inspired, according to this account. It is no more transcendent than the everyday voice that reminds us to carry an umbrella or take out the garbage. And yet conscience dares to pronounce on matters of morality, often highly serious matters with profound implications. That voice comes from within our very human selves: it has been constructed by our own deliberation and reasoning. It should never be ignored, although it is human, fallible and utterly mundane.

http://humanistperspectives.org/issue15 ... ience.html
Steve3007
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta:
Ditto. I think one eventually reaches a threshold with small talk over the years where "enough is enough". An exception: the weather, which I consider beautiful and fascinating, the shifting moods of the atmosphere.
Yes but, what you're doing there is taking a subject which is often the subject of small-talk but seeing the potential for big-talk in it. Doesn't stop people from normally confining themselves to "turned out nice again."

Maybe there's potential for big-talk in everything. Even discussions about the journey to work. I'll try harder to find it.
Maxcady10001
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

Spectrum
I believe we may have forgotten intention. Before the conscience or any social anxiety comes into play, a person must intend to do something. And social anxiety acts the same as conscience, as an output, when morality and intention are inputs. We must first intend to do something and then our intentions clash with our morality and social anxiety/conscience is an output. So social anxiety would be an output of intention and morality. Intention can be substituted for the conscious desire to do something.
Georgeanna
You still have not provided a definition for conscience, and the quoted material you provided supports what I said is a common defintion of a conscience. Also, I am not suggesting anything remotely religious, as I find religion very off putting.
Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Social anxiety

Post by Georgeanna »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Spectrum
I believe we may have forgotten intention. Before the conscience or any social anxiety comes into play, a person must intend to do something. And social anxiety acts the same as conscience, as an output, when morality and intention are inputs. We must first intend to do something and then our intentions clash with our morality and social anxiety/conscience is an output. So social anxiety would be an output of intention and morality. Intention can be substituted for the conscious desire to do something.
Georgeanna
You still have not provided a definition for conscience, and the quoted material you provided supports what I said is a common defintion of a conscience. Also, I am not suggesting anything remotely religious, as I find religion very off putting.
I've given enough, and more than a definition than you have offered re 'social anxiety'.
If my thoughts have not convinced you that they are not one and the same, then so be it.
Maxcady10001
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

Then please quote your definition of conscience.
Social anxiety can be described as nervousness in social situations. (Wiki) I use the exact same definition of social anxiety as you did in precious posts. All you have is be as vague as possible in describing your position in this discussion.
Georgeanna
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Georgeanna »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Then please quote your definition of conscience.
Social anxiety can be described as nervousness in social situations. (Wiki) I use the exact same definition of social anxiety as you did in precious posts. All you have is be as vague as possible in describing your position in this discussion.
OK. Please reread previous posts # 3, 11 and 18. The latter supplemented by Spectrum, #20.
If something is not clear to you, then please ask.

It wouldn't matter if I took the trouble to condense my previous thoughts into a more concise definition of conscience ( others have done it better ), it is clearly not the same as mere 'nervousness in social situations'.
Maxcady10001
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

Did you read my reply to post 3, in post 5?
You said conscience was judgement of what is right or wrong, and is nervousness in social situations not the fear of being negatively judged? You have to think about on what basis these judgements of right or wrong are on. What is right or wrong is decided by society and not like you suggest in post 11, by your own terms. Try to provide a clear distinction between the way conscience works and the fear of being negatively judged. You will find it is impossible.

-- Updated November 17th, 2017, 12:01 pm to add the following --

It's like you aren't even reading what i'm saying.
Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Social anxiety

Post by Georgeanna »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Did you read my reply to post 3, in post 5?
You said conscience was judgement of what is right or wrong, and is nervousness in social situations not the fear of being negatively judged? You have to think about on what basis these judgements of right or wrong are on. What is right or wrong is decided by society and not like you suggest in post 11, by your own terms. Try to provide a clear distinction between the way conscience works and the fear of being negatively judged. You will find it is impossible.

-- Updated November 17th, 2017, 12:01 pm to add the following --

It's like you aren't even reading what i'm saying.
:) OK - I get the same feeling. Time to call it a day.
Maxcady10001
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

I take your concession as a victory
Georgeanna
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Georgeanna »

Maxcady10001 wrote:I take your concession as a victory
If you see the ending of my participation in these terms, then so be it. I can live with that :)
Spectrum
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Re: Social anxiety

Post by Spectrum »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Spectrum
I believe we may have forgotten intention. Before the conscience or any social anxiety comes into play, a person must intend to do something. And social anxiety acts the same as conscience, as an output, when morality and intention are inputs. We must first intend to do something and then our intentions clash with our morality and social anxiety/conscience is an output. So social anxiety would be an output of intention and morality. Intention can be substituted for the conscious desire to do something.
Yes, 'intention' would be an input into the Conscience System.
However note 'instincts' and other unmodulated primal impulses can also be input into the Conscience System.
There are many who acted without exercising any deliberated intentions. It is only when their Conscience System [active] is triggered immediately or delayed thereafter that their conscience system generate a resulting output which can be guilt, emotional reactions, etc. that will lead to social anxiety and other psychological reactions.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Maxcady10001
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Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm

Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

Still conscience is the output of morality and intenton and any other primal impulses, and it is impossible to distinguish conscience from social anxiety. A replacement of conscience with social anxiety would yield the same results. Conscience has to be an output of the aforementioned inputs, and is interchangeable with social anxiety.
Spectrum
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Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Social anxiety

Post by Spectrum »

Maxcady10001 wrote:Still conscience is the output of morality and intenton and any other primal impulses, and it is impossible to distinguish conscience from social anxiety. A replacement of conscience with social anxiety would yield the same results. Conscience has to be an output of the aforementioned inputs, and is interchangeable with social anxiety.
As I had stated "inferences" and "conclusions" are merely outputs of the "faculty of reason" we cannot insist they represent the whole system of faculty of reason itself.
Similarly social anxiety as an output of the system of the system of conscience. Actually I don't see it as a direct output but rather it is a secondary consequences to a direct output like guilt.
Similarly we do not insist "sh:t" is interchangeable with the 'digestive system'.
You can insist but your insistence will not change the fact.

In addition, your insistence to lump them up will not promote efficiency for one to understand the mechanics and processes of the whole system of conscience.
To facilitate efficiency in understanding and to promote whatever progress and improvements we need to break down the whole system and study the individual parts in relation to the whole system.

If you were to present and research on a thesis 'Conscience is interchangeable with social anxiety' it will be very clumsy. Try it.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Maxcady10001
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Joined: September 12th, 2017, 6:03 pm

Re: Social anxiety

Post by Maxcady10001 »

First I would like to acknowledge one again your system of conscience is a conclusion that only you have come to, hence no citations for an actual faculty of conscience. If such a faculty was such an obvious conclusion, there would certainly be more support. But, I have already conceded the existence of a system only in place of conscience there is social anxiety. Now please explain where conscience steps into this process:

Primal desire/intention ------>morality----->social anxiety

When primal desires/intentions interact with morality, a person begins to feel anxiety over any possible disruption of social norms, which we mistakenly call a conscience. Some inner feelings of what is right or wrong. What you are doing is putting an imaginary club bouncer before the feeling of anxiety over the interaction.

-- Updated November 18th, 2017, 12:38 am to add the following --

*Once again
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