Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

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Spectrum
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote: January 20th, 2018, 2:44 am I am very curious if you could frame much of the Koran's passages in Buddhist terms (or simply in terms more readily accessible to our world today)? That may well be an interesting project! If it needs reforming how about showing us how. I think that would be a very interesting project AND one which I would be very much interested in helping you with if you were so inclined?
Since God is an impossibility and cannot exists as real, the inherent evil ethos reflect the active evil tendencies of the authors[s]. Such an evil ethos is embedded within the Quran and is supposedly commanded to be immutable, thus there is no way the Quran can be reform in any way.
Reformation of the religion cannot be done at present, but towards the future, believers should be weaned off from that evil laden holy texts and diverted to adopt beliefs and practices that are fool proofs without any evil laden elements.

Btw, I am not recommending Buddhism [even when I have high regards for it] as a religion [given any religion will have its negatives] in the future. Rather humanity can adopt the critical and useful elements from Buddhism and combine it with other positive elements from other beliefs and knowledge and repackage it as a generic and universal approach for all to deal with the same existential angst.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Dlaw
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dlaw »

The problem , Constitutionall and logically, about keeping out the "evil Muslim ideology" is that, in fact there are many passages just as disturbing in the Bible and, indeed, Muslim thought is largely based on the Old Testament.

Therefore any governmental debate on whether or not Islam trends over into an evil ideology becomes a theological debate and that's just not possible to have in the US system.
Dlaw
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dlaw »

The problem , Constitutionall and logically, about keeping out the "evil Muslim ideology" is that, in fact there are many passages just as disturbing in the Bible and, indeed, Muslim thought is largely based on the Old Testament.

Therefore any governmental debate on whether or not Islam trends over into an evil ideology becomes a theological debate and that's just not possible to have in the US system.
Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

There is not violence or hatred of any kind in the New Testament, Jesus message is solely the message of love. Jesus does not ever foment violence or hatred of any kind in any of the people he met oir spoke to. Jesus, was not, in short a lying, frothing-at-the-mouth war-mongering bastard or vicious blood-thirsty maniac like Mohammed who, I must remind you was repeatedly reported by witnesses to have very much relished personally slitting the throats of his captured enemies.

Finally if you actually read the Koran, you will soon note that it bears little resemblance overall to the Biblical Old Testament; it is more like a medieval "Mein Kampf" where the place of the Jew is taken by any human being who is not a bojne fide muslim ( follower of Islam). Read it ( the Koran and the Sunnah of Mohammed) for yourself - they're chock - a -bloc with barbarism and brutal exhortations to violent warfare against the "infidel" ( or "Kafir"). BTW if your religion is not Islam your, my friend, are a "Kafir", that means according to ANY genuine Muslim you meet have , in their eyes, only one choice: either convert to Islam immediately, OR ELSE.

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Dachshund
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Sy Borg »

Dachshund wrote: January 31st, 2018, 7:13 pmFinally if you actually read the Koran, you will soon note that it bears little resemblance overall to the Biblical Old Testament; it is more like a medieval "Mein Kampf" where the place of the Jew is taken by any human being who is not a bojne fide muslim ( follower of Islam). Read it ( the Koran and the Sunnah of Mohammed) for yourself - they're chock - a -bloc with barbarism and brutal exhortations to violent warfare against the "infidel" ( or "Kafir"). BTW if your religion is not Islam your, my friend, are a "Kafir", that means according to ANY genuine Muslim you meet have , in their eyes, only one choice: either convert to Islam immediately, OR ELSE.
Funny thing, the Muslims I've met kept being fairly normal, pleasant, cooperative people.

Meanwhile, Deuteronomy 13 gives clear instructions about killing infidels:
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
I think you'll find the ancients in general were keen on vigorous apostasy deterrence.
Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

Greta wrote: February 1st, 2018, 12:07 am
Dachshund wrote: January 31st, 2018, 7:13 pmFinally if you actually read the Koran, you will soon note that it bears little resemblance overall to the Biblical Old Testament; it is more like a medieval "Mein Kampf" where the place of the Jew is taken by any human being who is not a bojne fide muslim ( follower of Islam). Read it ( the Koran and the Sunnah of Mohammed) for yourself - they're chock - a -bloc with barbarism and brutal exhortations to violent warfare against the "infidel" ( or "Kafir"). BTW if your religion is not Islam your, my friend, are a "Kafir", that means according to ANY genuine Muslim you meet have , in their eyes, only one choice: either convert to Islam immediately, OR ELSE.
Funny thing, the Muslims I've met kept being fairly normal, pleasant, cooperative people.

Meanwhile, Deuteronomy 13 gives clear instructions about killing infidels:
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.
I think you'll find the ancients in general were keen on vigorous apostasy deterrence.
Greta,

(1) How do you know that they are bone fide muslims ( i.e. followers of Islam) that you say you keep meeting. If they arte , then why are they fraternizing with a white, Western devil ( a "Kafir" ) like your good self?

(2) Muslims are legally permitted to LIE and behave in a duplicitous, dissimulating, and deceptive manner by adopting a false fascade of civil iuty and congeniality, etc. when they are speaking to infidels in the West ( see my detailed post on the Islamic doctrine of Taqiya.)

The violence of the Old Testament is sharply circumscribed, in that it is specific to particular historical contexts ( i.e. to particular historical situations; to particular times and places). It is not open-ended like the many exhortations to violence in the Koran, Sunnah and certain articles of Sharia law. In any case , my post was related to the New Testament, not the Old Testament. It is the NT which is regarded as Christianity's ultimate and definitive, "final" Biblical text.


Just a piece of friendly advice Greta, I would not make a habit of socializing with real muslims if I were you; you' re just asking for trouble. Believe me, that have - to say the very least - absolutely no respect whatsoever for infidels like you !

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Dachshund
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Sy Borg
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Sy Borg »

Dachshund wrote: February 1st, 2018, 12:39 am... I would not make a habit of socializing with real muslims if I were you ...
Are blacks okay?
Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

It depends... Most black Africans and black Australoid racial groups harbour a deeply entrenched implicit and explicit hatred and ressentiment of white /European Westerners .Most Australian aboriginals, for example. think the majority of mainstream white Australians are utter bastards and inveterate racists, who view them as second class ( if that !) citizens. (And they are correct in thinking this, I believe).

Do you have any black aboriginal or Black African pals, Greta?

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Dachshund
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Burning ghost
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Burning ghost »

Dachshund -

People don't like being conquered. Brits possess resentment of the Germans, French and Spanish. Indians, for a greats part, resent the British Empire. IF ever there was a group of people's who have good reason to be annoyed at those who came in and took away their lives it would be aboriginals in Australia.

The force of violence was great because the technological know how was great. Too many things exchanged during the cultural clash knocked them flat. Enforcing rule over a disparate people is easily done if you're familiar with advanced political techniques and know how to get your way. There was exploitation and mass murder. Given the population of each people in Australia now its just way it is. We cannot turn back time, and it is likely best not to dwell on the past if all we can pull from it is resentment.

It will take some force for the aboriginal Australians to pull themselves up and fuse into society, or even reclaim/maintain there old ways. There seems to me to have been a mistake made of offering "compensation" to people. This does not seem to have done much good. The effect, as far as I can figure, has been to almost completely break the spirit of the people.

Look back with shame, but don't resort to guilt. Look back with disgust, but don't resort to rage. Easier said than done. Humans are mere babes and we've some way to go, but we'd better pay attention to the fact that we've come a long, long way too.

The whole "Islam" deal is the same. What is more people seem to look for information to back their claims and nothing else. A book is a book. Reading a book is not done in the same way by every individual.

I could argue, with equal vigor, that the New Testament is more dangerous because its a weak and passive ideology that believes in hugging and kissing those even when they're driving knives into our children and loved ones, and even whilst they are beating us flat to the ground. The "turn the other cheek" mentality of Christian doctrine is likely a more substantial evil that anything written in the Old Testament or the Koran.
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Spectrum
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum »

Greta wrote: February 1st, 2018, 2:42 am
Dachshund wrote: February 1st, 2018, 12:39 am... I would not make a habit of socializing with real muslims if I were you ...
Are blacks okay?
I would say true Muslims rather than real Muslims.
The true Muslims comply with Allah commands to the 't' [as in the Quran and other holy texts] without exceptions, otherwise it is obvious they will go to Hell if they do not comply with Allah's words.

The problem is there are 20% of humans who are born with an active evil tendencies, thus 20% of Muslims who will be triggered by the tons of evil laden elements in their immutable holy texts.

Why one must be wary with Muslims [not their default] is we do not know who are the 20% who has inborn evil tendencies and are likely to be inspired by the evil elements in their holy texts to kill non-believers as a divine duty.
It is already so evident from real reported cases where parents, neighbors, associated and friends were so shocked to discover certain 'goody-two-shoes' they know is the jihadist who has just killed innocent people and children. Anyone disputing this?

Any other humans [by race, etc.] are okay as long as they do not follow any immutable ideologies that command them to kill or hate non-believers under some existential threat to themselves if they do not comply.
Non-Muslim Blacks are OK as long as one know their background.
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Spectrum
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum »

Burning ghost wrote: February 1st, 2018, 3:42 am I could argue, with equal vigor, that the New Testament is more dangerous because its a weak and passive ideology that believes in hugging and kissing those even when they're driving knives into our children and loved ones, and even whilst they are beating us flat to the ground. The "turn the other cheek" mentality of Christian doctrine is likely a more substantial evil that anything written in the Old Testament or the Koran.
I don't agree with the above view.

The NT has an overriding pacifist maxim, i.e. love your enemies accompanied by love your neighbors, give the other cheek and generally love this and that.

Since there are 20% [conservative estimate] of humans thus who are evil prone, there are bound to be some % of Christians who will kill for various reasons [lack of impulse control] but there is no way they can refer to verses in the NT and justified they are killing in the name of Christ.

I can imagine in the Christian scenario of what will happen when a Christian who had killed an enemy or another human meet Christ after s/he died and what Christ would say;
  • Christ: WTF .. I told you [in NT] to love your enemies not to kill them! Now go and sit on that bloody hot spot in Hell of X years ...
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Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

Spectrum, how do you define "evil" ( I presume you are are referring, of course, to moral evil (i.e. human "wickedness"). Also, the figure of 20 % you claim represents the the estimated proportion of evilly - disposed human beings; how to you believe you are able to rationally justify this "20% claim" ? How, also, do you propose that one can detect a proclivity or a dormant, latent inclination to evil behaviour/s in another individual?

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Dachshund
Spectrum
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Spectrum »

Dachshund wrote: February 1st, 2018, 6:39 am Spectrum, how do you define "evil" ( I presume you are are referring, of course, to moral evil (i.e. human "wickedness"). Also, the figure of 20 % you claim represents the the estimated proportion of evilly - disposed human beings; how to you believe you are able to rationally justify this "20% claim" ? How, also, do you propose that one can detect a proclivity or a dormant, latent inclination to evil behaviour/s in another individual?

Regards

Dachshund
Yes, moral evil not ontological evil [Satan, etc.].

I define "evil" as terms of acts by humans, i.e. any human acts that is net-negative to the well being of an individual and therefrom to the well-being of humanity.

Evil acts by human can range in terms of degrees, say genocide = 99% and petty crimes, common lying, bribing at 5% and the rest in between.
Now we can easily estimate 80% of people will commit evilness of 5%, e.g. lying.
Therefore to say 20% are active to commit evil acts of some reasonable degree [killing, raping] is very feasible, thus this 20% is very conservative in comparison to the 80%.

At present we cannot detect who are likely to commit terrible evils especially religious based evils because religions by common understanding are deemed to be peaceful.

But I am optimistic we can in the future [>100 years??] when we have mapped the neural circuits of the human brain to reasonable degree.
Note the Human Connectome Project.
http://www.humanconnectomeproject.org/
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

I agree that in the future when human genetic science and its associated research technology are more advanced, we will ,in combination, with progressive developments in fields like neuropsychology and psychopharmacology, be able to eventually "screen" for an inherited biogenetic proclivity to evil behaviour, for instance, violent psychopathic behaviour. That is we already know some of the anatomical brain regions ( such as the orbitofrontal cortex, for instance, and the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex) that are almost certainly implicated in many cases of psychopathy , along with the role of different neurotransmitters like dopamine and noradrenalin in these areas of the brain. When we are able to link abnormal neural dysfunction in all of the particular brain regions known to be implicated in classic psychopathy ( for instance) directly to particular alleles, SNPs etc; in a patient's genome, we may then be able to design diagnostic tests capable of genetically screening for individuals who are, according to what the science says, at high risk for developing one of the different types of psychopathy or, say an antisocial personality disorder. Moreover, we may in the future, even be able to cure evil individuals by a process of genomic "cut and pasting"; that is by cutting out or neutralizing the evil sections of the genome and then pasting in healthy replacement segments. ? We could in theory one day be able to transform a veritable "Jack the Ripper" into a compassionate SJW ??!!



I thought, finally, you might find the etymology of the term "evil" interesting. The word "evil" derives from the old Anglo-Saxon term "yfel" ."Yfel" meant "beyond" , as in the expressions : "beyond the pale" or "beyond belief". Thus, a truly evil act is essentially one that is utterly beyond the comprehension of an average, normal human being. The gruesome crimes of serial killers are said to be acts of pure evil, because the reality of what these individuals ( persons like like, say, Jeffrey Dahmer) actually did to their victims is so appallingly horrific that it is simply way beyond the capacity of the normal human mind to truly grasp, or to even begin to genuinely understand/or make any kind of sense of.

Regards


Dachshund
Dachshund
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Re: Why the West must ban Muslim immigration

Post by Dachshund »

Oh yeah , I almost forgot...


I think you might find a book called "The Anatomy of Evil" by Michael Stone of some interest.


Stone is an experienced, forensic psychiatrist.


The major part of this book involves his presentation of an impressive 22-level hierarchy of evil behaviours that he constructed by systematically analysing the personal biographies/ psychiatric case studies of over 600 violent criminals.


In other sections of the book he looks at the root causes of evil behaviour in the interaction of factors like heredity, ( genotype), exposure to adverse environmental influences, violence- prone cultures, mental disorders and traumatic brain injury, the abuse of mind-altering (psycho active/ psychotomimetic , etc.) drugs and so on.


Here is a link to the book for you...


https://sites.google.com/site/populereb ... 4/download - pdf - the - anatomy - of - evil - by - michael - stone - read - online


Regards


Dachshund
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