What make someone is someone?

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cyss
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What make someone is someone?

Post by cyss »

Note: First of all, this is my first post in here, sorry if the post is in the wrong place.

To begin with my question, this is what I wrote while trying to configure it:
"Human are born, bound by their gene.
Unable to choose when, where, and how they are.

Combined with their environment and experience,
they grow to become a 'unique' individual.

However, in another meaning.
Doesn't that mean we can't become 'anyone'?"
______________________________________________
We are selfishly born unable to choose, what makes our personality is truly ours?
Does our physical body, memory, and experience bound us? What happen if all people have the same memory & experience, is that meant the loss of individuality?
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LuckyR
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by LuckyR »

cyss wrote: December 9th, 2017, 9:44 am Note: First of all, this is my first post in here, sorry if the post is in the wrong place.

To begin with my question, this is what I wrote while trying to configure it:
"Human are born, bound by their gene.
Unable to choose when, where, and how they are.

Combined with their environment and experience,
they grow to become a 'unique' individual.

However, in another meaning.
Doesn't that mean we can't become 'anyone'?"
______________________________________________
We are selfishly born unable to choose, what makes our personality is truly ours?
Does our physical body, memory, and experience bound us? What happen if all people have the same memory & experience, is that meant the loss of individuality?
I agree that the combination of our internal viewpoint and our external experiences (which shapes our viewpoint over time) makes us who we are.
"As usual... it depends."
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Hereandnow
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Hereandnow »

I don't know about becoming anyone you please, but I do like your observation that we are born, "bound." Kierkegaard in his Repetition wrote about this:
“I stick my finger into existence – it smells of nothing. Where am I? Who am I? How came I here? What is this thing called the world? What does this world mean? . . . Why was I not consulted, . . . throwing me into the ranks, as if I had been bought by a kidnapper, a dealer in souls? . . . And if I am to be compelled to take part in it, where is the director? . . . Is there no director?”

and it was picked up by Heidegger in his notion geworfenheit (sp?) meaning throwness, referring to the extraordinary occasion where one steps out of the everydayness of living (Husserl called it the naturalistic attitude) and observes the world apart from the presuppositions that are normally always there. It is there, on this "bank and shoal of time" (Macbeth) that questions of our "boundness" to this world take on meaning unexamined in mainstream thought.

Before asking what you can become, perhaps you could look into the question about what it is to be at all. Start with Kant's Critique of Pure Reason (not that you want to be a rationalist!). Bring your brain: the really substantive answers to questions such as yours are not simply there for the taking, as if someone could just tell you. You have to do the work.
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Spectrum »

Of all living things up to the highest primate, humans are the only ones who are capable of asking such a question.

Thus the likely answer to the above question must be from the differences between humans and the rest of the living things.

There is only a 2% [say they say] difference in terms of genome between the 'highest' primate and human beings but what is obvious is humans has more complex brain and a much greater degree of self-awareness and thinking ability.

So the answer to the OP can be narrowed to much greater degree of self-awareness and thinking ability that enable human being to ask the above sort of question and answer it themselves.

So we have found out the 'what' but what is more critical is the 'why' so that humanity can optimize by aligning and flowing with the 'why' more efficiently. This 'why' can be abstracted from empirical evidence of evolution.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
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Burning ghost
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Burning ghost »

The reach of your physiological being determines who you are and who you can be. At the level of differences put in place for conveniences of biological sciences you'll find that chaos is ever present. Life is determinable enough to make predictions and alter your course.

The whole nature and nurture differentiation is one of convenience only. Nothing you do is ever really completely predictable and determined. There are some things with the scope of our intellect that we can model well enough to makes objects out and to guide our route through them.

You are always nascent and the reflective nature of being gives certain myopic appearances that allow you to even ask such questions. Really it is the form of "questioning" that holds the biggest mystery.
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Judaka
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Judaka »

If I were maimed and lost a limb, I would still be myself.
I was myself when I was 1 hour old, 5 years old, 10 years old, 15 years old and so on.
I always considered myself an individual.

So it isn't my physical body, it isn't my memories and it isn't my experiences. I call myself "me" and everyone else "you" and honestly I will always think of myself as an individual regardless of whether I lose my uniqueness by sharing genes, memories and experiences with all others. I feel bound by this as well, no matter how I change as a person, I will always be me and I can't be anyone else.
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LuckyR
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by LuckyR »

Judaka wrote: December 23rd, 2017, 4:25 pm If I were maimed and lost a limb, I would still be myself.
I was myself when I was 1 hour old, 5 years old, 10 years old, 15 years old and so on.
I always considered myself an individual.

So it isn't my physical body, it isn't my memories and it isn't my experiences. I call myself "me" and everyone else "you" and honestly I will always think of myself as an individual regardless of whether I lose my uniqueness by sharing genes, memories and experiences with all others. I feel bound by this as well, no matter how I change as a person, I will always be me and I can't be anyone else.
Really? You accurately recall your appreciation of self at age 1 hour? I think there is a lot less certainty in this area than what you propose.
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Sy Borg »

"You can be anyone if you try", so they say. A typical exhortation used by eusocial post-apes to spur each other on to ever greater efforts. It's easy to see how this trait of pushiness could play out in group selection; motivated and organised groups will tend to survive better than less industrious and more anarchic groups.

As noted above, what are our genetics but a blueprint of our limitations?
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Judaka »

Really? You accurately recall your appreciation of self at age 1 hour? I think there is a lot less certainty in this area than what you propose.
Well I am not saying I had that thought when I was 1 hour old, I am saying that as it currently stands in my view now that I was still myself when I was 1 hour old. My point being I don't associate the beginning of "myself" with the development of my personality, experiences, memories or whatever else. At the end of the day, the term "myself" is not defined so strictly that it could be not be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

I don't really view the goal of these kinds of questions as "determine the truth" because there is no true answer here, the argument will always come back to the definition and characteristics of a word, where no interpretation can ever be truly validated beyond opinion (in my opinion). So for me, my answer to this question is a response to ideas such as genetic lottery and spiritual transformation. I exist because my parents gave birth to me, if this didn't occur then I wouldn't exist but since it did happen, until i die, here I am. I own my past, who I am, from there - live and learn.

I'm not alone in thinking this way but those who don't think this way may develop insecurities, perhaps the whole of the modern left wing movement can be defined as people not clearly identifying themselves as themselves but instead sharing their identity with others or with fiction. Since there is no actual true answer, I just choose the answer I believe brings me the best results (as I see it) and others choose to believe what they want to believe for their own various reasons. Even certainty is only another consideration of whether certainty makes you feel self-assured and brings the ego benefits or if maintaining an open mind makes you feel considerate or sophisticated.

So while an argument about this may result in a circle jerk or a satisfying self-perceived victory for all parties, this entire thread can only ever really truly be a sharing of views.
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LuckyR
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by LuckyR »

Judaka wrote: December 24th, 2017, 6:20 am
Really? You accurately recall your appreciation of self at age 1 hour? I think there is a lot less certainty in this area than what you propose.
Well I am not saying I had that thought when I was 1 hour old, I am saying that as it currently stands in my view now that I was still myself when I was 1 hour old. My point being I don't associate the beginning of "myself" with the development of my personality, experiences, memories or whatever else. At the end of the day, the term "myself" is not defined so strictly that it could be not be interpreted in a multitude of ways.

I don't really view the goal of these kinds of questions as "determine the truth" because there is no true answer here, the argument will always come back to the definition and characteristics of a word, where no interpretation can ever be truly validated beyond opinion (in my opinion). So for me, my answer to this question is a response to ideas such as genetic lottery and spiritual transformation. I exist because my parents gave birth to me, if this didn't occur then I wouldn't exist but since it did happen, until i die, here I am. I own my past, who I am, from there - live and learn.

I'm not alone in thinking this way but those who don't think this way may develop insecurities, perhaps the whole of the modern left wing movement can be defined as people not clearly identifying themselves as themselves but instead sharing their identity with others or with fiction. Since there is no actual true answer, I just choose the answer I believe brings me the best results (as I see it) and others choose to believe what they want to believe for their own various reasons. Even certainty is only another consideration of whether certainty makes you feel self-assured and brings the ego benefits or if maintaining an open mind makes you feel considerate or sophisticated.

So while an argument about this may result in a circle jerk or a satisfying self-perceived victory for all parties, this entire thread can only ever really truly be a sharing of views.
Agreed.

I commonly use memories as a major determinant of self since if one could transfer the complete set of my memories from my first to say this minute, to someone, what would be the practical difference between that person and me (at that moment)?

Admittedly one hour after the transfer, that person would be slightly different from me, and in a year, perhaps quite different, but for that first minute, pretty much identical to me.
"As usual... it depends."
Judaka
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Judaka »

That's a very free will based argument, I don't think your temperament, sexuality, intelligence, social behaviour and many more things would remain the same. Wouldn't it also mean that your current identity is transient, constantly changing as you gain and lose memories? Does your "self" die as you go to sleep and awake reborn? Or if you experienced something traumatic or enlightening, which changes your thinking, you are no longer yourself? It'd be an interesting idea if so :).
Belindi
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Belindi »

LuckyR wrote:
"I agree that the combination of our internal viewpoint and our external experiences (which shapes our viewpoint over time) makes us who we are."

This is true of one's own subjective sense of personal identity, and Here and Now discussing those famous existentialists is also commenting on subjective sense of personal identity.

However the other discussion of personal identity is ontological. Apologies to the original poster if they aren't accustomed to the philosophical jargon, however 'ontological' is such a useful word that I hope it's okay to use here. Ontology of persons as separable units is best regarded from the point of view of the forensic specialist or the police detective who will identify the living or dead individual by dental record, DNA, fingerprints, first person identification from memory, and personal papers such as possession of birth cert, passport, or utility bills. In other words I'm saying that public recognition of personal identity is strictly speaking ( and philosophers should claim strictly) a matter of social conventions.
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Bahman
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Bahman »

cyss wrote: December 9th, 2017, 9:44 am Note: First of all, this is my first post in here, sorry if the post is in the wrong place.

To begin with my question, this is what I wrote while trying to configure it:
"Human are born, bound by their gene.
Unable to choose when, where, and how they are.

Combined with their environment and experience,
they grow to become a 'unique' individual.

However, in another meaning.
Doesn't that mean we can't become 'anyone'?"
______________________________________________
We are selfishly born unable to choose, what makes our personality is truly ours?
Does our physical body, memory, and experience bound us? What happen if all people have the same memory & experience, is that meant the loss of individuality?
Well that is true in a world without free will.
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LuckyR
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by LuckyR »

Judaka wrote: December 25th, 2017, 6:09 am That's a very free will based argument, I don't think your temperament, sexuality, intelligence, social behaviour and many more things would remain the same. Wouldn't it also mean that your current identity is transient, constantly changing as you gain and lose memories? Does your "self" die as you go to sleep and awake reborn? Or if you experienced something traumatic or enlightening, which changes your thinking, you are no longer yourself? It'd be an interesting idea if so :).
I don't disagree. To my mind, my self is constantly changing, just as you supposed. But changing, rather than dying and being reborn.
"As usual... it depends."
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Burning ghost
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Re: What make someone is someone?

Post by Burning ghost »

The weather changes, but it's unlikely to rain milk tomorrow.
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