Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

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Fooloso4
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Frost:
Check out the Afshar experiment.
Not surprisingly it has its supporters and critics. The same goes for the rest. Each theory and each interpretation that seems plausible has its supporters and critics. We are not in a position to reach any definitive conclusions.
The way “atom” was originally conceptualized has lost meaning, but the word atom today describes the structure of molecules which is not a metaphysical stance like physicalism or materialism. Very different.
I agree, very different. The proper analogy is between the concept of an atom and the concept of matter. When physicists talk about matter the usage of the term is not limited the concept of matter that informed classical physics. Those who argue about the metaphysical assumptions of physicalism and/or materialism often talk past each other because they start from different assumptions about what matter is.
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

Fooloso4 wrote: March 19th, 2018, 1:11 pm Not surprisingly it has its supporters and critics. The same goes for the rest. Each theory and each interpretation that seems plausible has its supporters and critics. We are not in a position to reach any definitive conclusions.
How each interpretation attempts to account for this experimental data must be considered. My point is that the Many Worlds and De Broglie-Bohm interpretations which claim there is a real particle there cannot account for this (among other things such as virtual particles found in quantum electrodynamics or teleportation). Nor can any realist modification of QM such as GRW or the Penrose Objective Reduction. The Transactional Interpretation provides an excellent account, although I disagree with Cramer’s most realist approach. Ruth Casner’s informational interpretation of the transactional interpretation is compatible with the von Neumann interpretation which is compatible with all experimental evidence at this time. All considered, it is the only reasonable interpretation.

While it’s difficult to say what is “definitive,” if taking a Bayesian approach and considering all the experimental evidence, it becomes difficult to defend anything other than essentially the von Neumann interpretation, although with the transactional modification I mentioned which explicitly describes the dynamics of the informational exchange. Many people defending the other interpretations try to focus on just a few experiments that seem plausibly compatible with the interpretation while ignoring others that are not and falling back on possible loopholes. As loopholes have been continually addressed, they continue to support the von Neumann interpretation and orthodox quantum theory. The “nail in the coffin” on other interpretations comes from the experiments by Dean Radin, which are an extension into specific quantum experiments from a great body of evidence using random event generators. The von Neumann interpretation is literally the only one that can account for such phenomena and it supports only a weak ontological realism, since it is against micro and macro-realism.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Count Lucanor »

So, you're done trying to fool everyone and along with it, spitting your venomous insults. Fine. I was not falling for it, anyway.

The arguments stand and no amount of "look at that experiment" calls will make your quantum fantasies become more real. Your record of false claims, exaggerations and contradictions in this thread alone is staggering. Teleportation? Sure, in your dreams. Turns out it is not real physical movement, but the state of entangled particles. That's the typical problem of sci-fi enthusiasts carried away by the yellow press coverage of scientific topics. Teleportation the case in hand: let's look at how the news is covered with fantastic claims to catch credulous readers:

www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/20 ... -next/amp/

At first glance, and looking at the Star Trek mention and pictures that start the article, it really looks like they teleported something. Until you get to this part deep down in the article:
That’s where quantum teleportation comes in. Quantum teleportation is a real phenomenon, but doesn’t actually transport or teleport any particles themselves. Rather, what gets transferred from one place to the other is the information inherent to an indeterminate quantum state, which is exactly what you’d need to arrive at your destination! The way this works is through pairs of entangled particles.
Yes, teleportation is just good old entanglement. Nonetheless, a marvelous feat. The problem comes when the newagers will try to sell you their quantum wooness.

The notions of the physical nature of the universe abandoned? Sure, in your wildest dreams of quantum ecstasy. Yet, Nature magazine seems not to have been informed of the new paradigm:
Quantum mechanics is the study of the dynamics of particles at its most fundamental level. The state of a particle, such as its position or momentum, is described by a statistical distribution given by its wavefunction. As this name suggests, this formalism gives matter many properties that are classically associated with waves.
Quantum physics is the study of matter and energy at its most fundamental level. A central tenet of quantum physics is that energy comes in indivisible packets called quanta. Quanta behave very differently to macroscopic matter: particles can behave like waves, and waves behave as though they are particles.
Yes: matter, matter, matter. And sure, making the distinction between macroscopic level and quantum level is for the mentally retarded.

Causality erased from our understanding of the universe? Sure, in your yoga trips, maybe. Meanwhile you still keep making spurious correlations as evidence of causal relations. Make up your mind!
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Fooloso4
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Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Frost:
The “nail in the coffin” on other interpretations comes from the experiments by Dean Radin …
Most physicists would agree that this is the nail in the coffin, but the coffin in question would be your own.

As far as I am concerned this line of inquiry has been nailed shut. I have nothing more to say.
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

Fooloso4 wrote: March 19th, 2018, 3:20 pm Frost:
The “nail in the coffin” on other interpretations comes from the experiments by Dean Radin …
Most physicists would agree that this is the nail in the coffin, but the coffin in question would be your own.

As far as I am concerned this line of inquiry has been nailed shut. I have nothing more to say.
Yeah, just put your fingers in your ears and just say “la la la.”
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

Count Lucanor wrote: March 19th, 2018, 3:01 pm Yes, teleportation is just good old entanglement. Nonetheless, a marvelous feat. The problem comes when the newagers will try to sell you their quantum wooness.
I wanted to clarify since the article you posted said "but doesn’t actually transport or teleport any particles themselves." When you copy the information state of a photon, you destroy it, which is part of the no-cloning theorem. That is why the photon instantaneously manifests with the teleported information state. In other words, the physical particle is a manifestation of the information state. But that's just "quantum wooness," huh? You fvcking clown.
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

I'm wondering how many more times Deepak Chopra will be mentioned.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Frost wrote: March 19th, 2018, 5:22 pm
Count Lucanor wrote: March 19th, 2018, 3:01 pm Yes, teleportation is just good old entanglement. Nonetheless, a marvelous feat. The problem comes when the newagers will try to sell you their quantum wooness.
I wanted to clarify since the article you posted said "but doesn’t actually transport or teleport any particles themselves." When you copy the information state of a photon, you destroy it, which is part of the no-cloning theorem. That is why the photon instantaneously manifests with the teleported information state. In other words, the physical particle is a manifestation of the information state. But that's just "quantum wooness," huh? You fvcking clown.
Yeah, maybe, but why should we believe you? This is most likely another of your false claims and exaggerations that will need further clarifying.
Frost wrote: I'm wondering how many more times Deepak Chopra will be mentioned.
BTW, you have had every chance to take distance from Chopra and avoid once and for all any affiliation with his doctrines, despite one of your heroes being clearly associated with him. What is stopping you? Would you be angry too if you're associated with Rupert Sheldrake's ideas? You can agree they talk nonsense and free yourself from their stigma.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
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