Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

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Littlemoon
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Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Littlemoon » January 2nd, 2018, 10:04 pm

There is no doubt we are near the artificial intelligence Era. I do think that will be a major breakthrough when it does reach its full potential. However there are some very pressing matters, ethical and non ethical that need an answer.
My opinion is that artificial intelligence will significantly improve our life quality. We are speaking in matters of Healthcare, patient care, even daily care!
But when all of this will be too much? Will it be our ultimate downfall or will it be our survival?

Up for a discussion gents?

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LuckyR
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by LuckyR » January 3rd, 2018, 3:10 am

The problem (as demonstrated in The Terminator) isn't AI itself, it is the abdicatoon of control to AI. I don't really see that as something humans will seek to do
"As usual... it depends."

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Greta
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Greta » January 3rd, 2018, 7:07 am

In less than a billion years the Earth's surface will be too hot for biology. Further, space is proving to be highly unsuitable for biology. We humans, certainly with our current biology, are doomed. Like Lucky, I doubt that AI will take over, rather it will outlast us. Most likely, it will greatly extend our capacity to survive. Given the limitations of biology in the face of the very long term challenges ahead with our ageing sun, we (or at least some of us) will surely meld with AI.

Eduk
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Eduk » January 3rd, 2018, 9:29 am

This reminds me of brave new world. I think people imagine an AI future where there is nothing left for humans to do. Leaving humans in a happy pig state.
It also reminds me of I Robot. Would we all be better off if the robots had won? Were they considering the happy pig dilemma?
Giving control to AI would be interesting. I think the purpose of the AI is something I'd rather not leave to a choice by humans for fear they make the wrong choice.
Actually I kind of see the process of evolution itself as a 'tool' for creating 'good' choices.

Littlemoon
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Littlemoon » January 3rd, 2018, 3:44 pm

I think the problem is to give AI the power of planning the future. For the moment, we need to ask, what's our current level when it comes to AI? The most advanced robot we currently have is asimo which isn't that smart. Then we have watson computer that is incredibly magnificent, but both are at a very rudimentary level. So for now, we wouldn't need to bother about issues of AI becoming the downfall of Human Kind.

I think the problem is when we give the robot the power of conscience. What is conscience and how can you give something we can't understand yet to a robot? Will their plans after we give them conscience include us?

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Judaka » January 4th, 2018, 10:26 am

Chaos creates opportunity, perhaps in a dystopian future where the west/UN is no longer a major peacekeeping force and many dangerous countries and megacorporations exist that wish to militarise AI irresponsibly then we may see a future where AI can take over. Though I think that nukes are still a far more potent threat to human civilisation than AI will ever be.

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Alias » January 7th, 2018, 5:19 pm

I suppose a lot of Roman citizens in 280AD or so wondered about and quite seriously discussed the future of the empire in case slavery were ever abolished, or in case the new christian craze should ever catch on or somebody invents a projectile weapon that explodes on impact....
But history doesn't move on well-oiled tracks, in the same straight line, indefinitely.
Unexpected things happen.
Also, of course, expected things.
How will AI improve health care, if all the funding is pulled and redirected to the military?
Whose quality of life will improve with advanced robotics?
It all depends, not on how intelligent the machines are, but on who owns them.

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Greta
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Greta » January 7th, 2018, 6:07 pm

Alias wrote:
January 7th, 2018, 5:19 pm
It all depends, not on how intelligent the machines are, but on who owns them.
Corporations will own them. Corporations in themselves are a form of collective intelligence, just as an ant colony has a collective intelligence and capability far beyond that of its individuals.

So all of this corporate information will be poured into an information processing unit whose physical expression will be every device connected to it. These highly concentrated information processing centres look somewhat like brains, which of course are also concentrated info processors.

It appears to me that AI is being built in a modular fashion, with the experiential and learning aspects being built separately to the memory and "nervous system". I suspect that once corporate IT systems are mostly controlled by AI - integrating a flexible, learning AI "cortex" with an established network, that's when we really see what it can do.

This too is happening gradually; obviously no corporation is going to throw its entire operation over to an untested AI CEO, not all at once anyway.

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Alias » January 9th, 2018, 1:30 pm

Same problem with linear projection:
Who says corporations will continue in their accustomed form, in their present mode of operation?
I'm not even sure that in the present form they are like the hive mind of an ant colony or any kind of self-aware society. I suspect that corporations, as they have come to operate in the late 20th and century, are more like machines than human collectives; that the boards of directors who supposedly control them don't actually make the minute-to-minute decisions. If that is so, more of the corporate functions will be taken over, sooner, than any human anticipates or realizes. Certainly, far more is going on (and has been for a decade or more) in their computers than any programmer or designer understands, and CEO's have no clue at all.

And, of course, there is the question of corporations breaking up, changing financial management, switching to new enterprises, merging, going bankrupt, being bought out. Whole economies toppling over; currencies and markets crashing...
Too many variables to predict.

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Greta
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Greta » January 9th, 2018, 9:04 pm

Alias wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 1:30 pm
Same problem with linear projection:
Who says corporations will continue in their accustomed form, in their present mode of operation?
Agreed. They won't, which was part of my point.
Alias wrote:I'm not even sure that in the present form they are like the hive mind of an ant colony or any kind of self-aware society. I suspect that corporations, as they have come to operate in the late 20th and century, are more like machines than human collectives; that the boards of directors who supposedly control them don't actually make the minute-to-minute decisions.
They are more machine-like than individuals yes, "programmed" by policy as they are, but they operate more like simple organisms with most focus on growth and reproduction. A corporate "brain" is primitive by biological standards, the senses are more diffuse, often acting independently of the CPU/brain. However, automated workers controlled by ever more sophisticated controlling technology will result in much more direct control from on high.

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Alias » January 10th, 2018, 1:17 am

Greta wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 9:04 pm
They are more machine-like than individuals yes, "programmed" by policy as they are, but they operate more like simple organisms with most focus on growth and reproduction. A corporate "brain" is primitive by biological standards, the senses are more diffuse, often acting independently of the CPU/brain. However, automated workers controlled by ever more sophisticated controlling technology will result in much more direct control from on high.
What if the 'on high" dies or is deposed? What if the "on high" has no frickin idea how the mechanism operates?
Who the hell is up there, anyway?
Those who can induce you to believe absurdities can induce you to commit atrocities. - Voltaire

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Greta
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Greta » January 10th, 2018, 1:32 am

Alias wrote:
January 10th, 2018, 1:17 am
Greta wrote:
January 9th, 2018, 9:04 pm
They are more machine-like than individuals yes, "programmed" by policy as they are, but they operate more like simple organisms with most focus on growth and reproduction. A corporate "brain" is primitive by biological standards, the senses are more diffuse, often acting independently of the CPU/brain. However, automated workers controlled by ever more sophisticated controlling technology will result in much more direct control from on high.
What if the 'on high" dies or is deposed? What if the "on high" has no frickin idea how the mechanism operates?
Who the hell is up there, anyway?
Corporations die too. When they die, as with any death, the components distribute into their environment.

Those on high are famously out of touch with operations. By the same token, we don't have much clue about the doings of most of our body systems; we take for granted that they work. Who comprises the brain of an organisation? The board, the CEO, the executive, and middle management and supervisors (like the lower brain). Clerical and knowledge workers are now increasingly being displaced by automation, AI decisions may yet become consistently better than those by executives, making them redundant too.

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Jklint » January 10th, 2018, 5:22 am

Rather AI than a walking function programmed only by his education. There's already too many of those around.

Littlemoon
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Littlemoon » January 10th, 2018, 6:50 pm

Alias wrote:
January 7th, 2018, 5:19 pm
I suppose a lot of Roman citizens in 280AD or so wondered about and quite seriously discussed the future of the empire in case slavery were ever abolished, or in case the new christian craze should ever catch on or somebody invents a projectile weapon that explodes on impact....
But history doesn't move on well-oiled tracks, in the same straight line, indefinitely.
Unexpected things happen.
Also, of course, expected things.
How will AI improve health care, if all the funding is pulled and redirected to the military?
Whose quality of life will improve with advanced robotics?
It all depends, not on how intelligent the machines are, but on who owns them.
Well in matters of patient care, this could potentially help old people in their house. Heavy lifting for example, or in a more evolved way, fight back loneliness. This is one of the biggest problem old people face when they come of age. Loneliness becomes their worst fear. No one to talk with. That's one way I think AI could potentially work.
In healthcare, AI can simply out best humans when it comes to, for example, analysis of diagnosis. There was a trial not too long ago about a machine being able to identify quicker and flawlessly tumors where the most intelligent (and best) radiologists couldn't. If I'm not mistaken, they failed 30% of the times (we are speaking about very difficult X-rays MRIs etc)

As for military operations, I think that simply depends of what people deem as a priority. It's up for "the people" (not corporations and the likes) to control this. But I only see this working in democratized countries with open minds.

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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Alias » January 10th, 2018, 7:37 pm

Littlemoon wrote:
January 10th, 2018, 6:50 pm
[ A- it all depends, not on how intelligent the machines are, but on who owns them.]

Well in matters of patient care, this could potentially help old people in their house. Heavy lifting for example, or in a more evolved way, fight back loneliness. [/auote]
Oh, there is plenty of potential - for those who can afford it. But with public health losing funds and insurance premiums rising, fewer and fewer people can afford even the essential services, never mind luxuries like fighting loneliness. Lots of old people can't even afford to keep a dog.
As for military operations, I think that simply depends of what people deem as a priority.
Isn't that what we've been asying? Which of "the "people" have the power to make these decisions? There is nothing democratic about it!

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