Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

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Littlemoon
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Littlemoon »

Well when I say "the people" I mean the collective that makes up a society. There can be formed commissaries that regulate these things since it is uncharted territory. Like an ethical department, but focused in AI.
Maybe at the moment this can be seen as luxury (which it is) but it's still a very green concept that needs time to mature. Probably in a century this won't be considered a luxury but something of essential in everyone's daily life.
Pages
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Pages »

Try to Watch movies just for entertainment sakes.
I don't see any possibility of AI advancing so much as to revolt against humans.
Humans can use technology to cripple the entire world's economy and take us back to stone age, that's possible. AI... Mm, I just don't see it
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
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JamesOfSeattle
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by JamesOfSeattle »

Pages wrote: March 8th, 2018, 1:32 pm I don't see any possibility of AI advancing so much as to revolt against humans.
[...]
AI... Mm, I just don't see it
Im curious. What do you see as the limit of artificial intelligence? Do you think AI can be as smart as humans, but not smarter?

*
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Sy Borg
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Sy Borg »

JamesOfSeattle wrote: March 9th, 2018, 5:49 pm
Pages wrote: March 8th, 2018, 1:32 pm I don't see any possibility of AI advancing so much as to revolt against humans.
[...]
AI... Mm, I just don't see it
Im curious. What do you see as the limit of artificial intelligence? Do you think AI can be as smart as humans, but not smarter?
My understanding is that humans excel in context, relations. By contrast, machines excel in repetitive tasks. While it's difficult to imagine AI being autonomous without some level of human guidance for a very long time, it's also difficult to imagine them being motivated to take over. It's humans empowered by AI who appear most likely to have that kind of motivation.

Motivation requires emotion and machines don't need emotions, which evolved as biological "subroutines" - packets of physical responses to strong stimuli. So, if under attack, your body produces a range of hormones and generally readies itself for vigorous action. By contrast, sadness immediately brings non threatening body language that will serve to reduce challenges or encourage support provision.

Machines don't need emotions because they can calculate options a million times more quickly than us so, rather than acting on the faith of automatic responses (tried and tested by natural selection to usually work), a machine can simply calculate and assess numerous options in less than a second and choose the one that presents the best possibility of success. It's roughly the difference between extracting something with a scalpel or slashing it off with a machete.

I suspect that the greatest threat would be mindless takeover like the paperclip maximiser thought experiment about the possibility of autonomous technologies spinning out of control, not unlike the spread of a virus.
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Count Lucanor
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Count Lucanor »

Littlemoon wrote: January 2nd, 2018, 10:04 pm There is no doubt we are near the artificial intelligence Era. I do think that will be a major breakthrough when it does reach its full potential. However there are some very pressing matters, ethical and non ethical that need an answer.
My opinion is that artificial intelligence will significantly improve our life quality. We are speaking in matters of Healthcare, patient care, even daily care!
But when all of this will be too much? Will it be our ultimate downfall or will it be our survival?

Up for a discussion gents?
We have survived technical advances before, no reason to think this is any different. Surely, any of the previous major breakthroughs have had the potential to put in danger the survival of human civilization. We're seeing it now with pollution, climate change, nuclear weapons, etc., but as always, these things are purely instrumental. It is ourselves that can cause our downfall.
The wise are instructed by reason, average minds by experience, the stupid by necessity and the brute by instinct.
― Marcus Tullius Cicero
Pages
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Pages »

Greta wrote: March 9th, 2018, 7:25 pm
JamesOfSeattle wrote: March 9th, 2018, 5:49 pm
Im curious. What do you see as the limit of artificial intelligence? Do you think AI can be as smart as humans, but not smarter?
My understanding is that humans excel in context, relations. By contrast, machines excel in repetitive tasks. While it's difficult to imagine AI being autonomous without some level of human guidance for a very long time, it's also difficult to imagine them being motivated to take over. It's humans empowered by AI who appear most likely to have that kind of motivation.

Motivation requires emotion and machines don't need emotions, which evolved as biological "subroutines" - packets of physical responses to strong stimuli. So, if under attack, your body produces a range of hormones and generally readies itself for vigorous action. By contrast, sadness immediately brings non threatening body language that will serve to reduce challenges or encourage support provision.

Machines don't need emotions because they can calculate options a million times more quickly than us so, rather than acting on the faith of automatic responses (tried and tested by natural selection to usually work), a machine can simply calculate and assess numerous options in less than a second and choose the one that presents the best possibility of success. It's roughly the difference between extracting something with a scalpel or slashing it off with a machete.

I suspect that the greatest threat would be mindless takeover like the paperclip maximiser thought experiment about the possibility of autonomous technologies spinning out of control, not unlike the spread of a virus.
I wouldn't have said it better
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

JamesOfSeattle wrote: March 9th, 2018, 5:49 pm
Pages wrote: March 8th, 2018, 1:32 pm I don't see any possibility of AI advancing so much as to revolt against humans.
[...]
AI... Mm, I just don't see it
Im curious. What do you see as the limit of artificial intelligence? Do you think AI can be as smart as humans, but not smarter?

*
I still have never seen a sufficient rebuttal to the Chinese Room problem. Computers can't be as smart as humans because they don't understand anything. They must become conscious in order to understand, and they are nowhere close to anything like that. This is the distinction between strong AI and weak AI that John Searle has put forward.

In the mean time, weak AI will help us to learn a tremendous amount about many things and improve the marginal productivity of labor, ushering in tremendous economic benefit if governments do not destroy it for us.
Pages
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Pages »

JamesOfSeattle wrote: March 9th, 2018, 5:49 pm
Pages wrote: March 8th, 2018, 1:32 pm I don't see any possibility of AI advancing so much as to revolt against humans.
[...]
AI... Mm, I just don't see it
Im curious. What do you see as the limit of artificial intelligence? Do you think AI can be as smart as humans, but not smarter?

*
Machines calculate, humans reason. Humans' biological make-up are complex, machines are predetermined. No matter how you see a machine act, it is still just a program. No matter how random it's abilities to adapt is, it's still directed.
They would never REASON to kill any human unless they are made so or because of a program malfunction. If the latter happens then it would be acting based on a course of action with no reason to carry on or to stop. It will never be able to decide and so can be shutdown. When you get motivated, or scared, or ambitious you develop strategies to maneuver your way out of a situation or towards accomplishing a goal. It's a biological cognitive process which machines would never have and that's their limitation that would make it highly improbable that they could revolt.
AI can be faster than humans (in calculating possibilities), not smarter

I don't know if that makes sense
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
Eduk
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Eduk »

To 'know' that AI can not exceed conscious human reason we would need to know the mechanism of consciousness.
We do not know the mechanism.
Likewise to know that AI can exceed human intelligence we would need to know the same mechanism.
Let me repeat myself, we do not know.
On the face of it however it merely seems like a question of time. Just how long a time is unknown.
Unknown means unknown.
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

Eduk wrote: March 10th, 2018, 8:53 pm To 'know' that AI can not exceed conscious human reason we would need to know the mechanism of consciousness.
We do not know the mechanism.
Likewise to know that AI can exceed human intelligence we would need to know the same mechanism.
Let me repeat myself, we do not know.
On the face of it however it merely seems like a question of time. Just how long a time is unknown.
The point is that AI doesn't know anything. It's a philosophical point, not an empirical one. That's the heart of the Chinese Room problem. The point is entirely independent of the mechanism of consciousness.

See: Searle, John R. (1980) “Minds, Brains and Programs.” Behavioral and Brain Sciences, 3: 417–57.
Jan Sand
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Jan Sand »

The computer is, in general, a machine designed to solve specific problems by fulfilling the goals of the potentials of algorithms which are quite limited and highly directed. A living mind has been evolved to estimate how to maintain a living creature and help it achieve the goals of survival and reproduction by collating experiments of success and failures less than those which are fatal but offer indications of positive or negative results. Each living creature has evolved to be reasonably successful in a limited ecological environment. In general, fish do not fly nor birds breathe water although adaptations of both permit some limited existence in crossover creatures. Humans, like other living creatures, are, in general adapted to the limitations of their ecological niche and prosper within those limitations. Even within those limitations humans must spend years learning to be successful existing creatures by modifying their response systems to their potentials. Some living creatures are so well designed by evolution to fit their particular environment that flexibility of adaptation is not required to any major extent to permit them to be successful. Unfortunately, environmental conditions can change radically and suddenly so this perfect but rigid adaptation can cause an entire species to cease existence whereas a creature with adaptive abilities may need time to function in changing environments but it may be more successful through flexibility.This inner ability of sensitivity to environmental necessities with potentials for adaptation is, to a degree, inherent within living creatures and, so far, rare in computers. This adaptive ability is just recently being attempted within digital machinery and when it becomes developed to the degree to fully compete with other life forms it has the potentials to replace much of human ability and insert itself into human culture to change it totally. No one seems to be able to theorize the total potentials of this change at the moment so the final outcome has only tentatively been explored.
Eduk
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Eduk »

Frost. Humans are constrained by physical forces. Does a ball choose to fall? How exactly are humans unlike the Chinese room problem? If you can explain that then maybe you would be able to apply that knowledge to a new computer and new AI. Who knows?
Why do so many people struggle so much with not knowing. It's ok not to know things Frost.
Unknown means unknown.
Jan Sand
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Jan Sand »

Although AI is under development in legal social contexts it seems to me that the immense illegal areas of internet activity might prove to be where independent AI might, at end, see its most ferocious development. When a criminal is rewarded by an algorithm complex with immense amounts of financial rewards and open access to personal initiatives not under human control it would ignore the fears that an independent criminal algorithm with large AI resources might severely damage the entire environment of the internet world. To set free such an electronic demon subservient to the income of a totally immoral but very clever AI expert could become a force to invade and destroy the whole world of digital communication and control.
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Frost
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Frost »

Eduk wrote: March 11th, 2018, 5:32 am Frost. Humans are constrained by physical forces. Does a ball choose to fall? How exactly are humans unlike the Chinese room problem? If you can explain that then maybe you would be able to apply that knowledge to a new computer and new AI. Who knows?
Humans have experience and computers do not which is a necessary precondition for knowledge and understanding. Computers operate using algorithmic effective procedures and there is no way to get from the semantics of this symbol manipulation to semantics. It is a logical point and it has nothing to do with being constrained by physical forces. If you can make a computer conscious, then yes, it will be able to have knowledge and understand, and this does require understanding the mechanisms of consciousness. But with no consciousness, there is no knowledge or understanding.
Jan Sand
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Re: Artificial intelligence: doom or survival?

Post by Jan Sand »

Computers in general today do not have experience but current experiments seem to be remedying that.
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