Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

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Littlemoon
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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Littlemoon » January 18th, 2018, 7:17 pm

Burning ghost wrote:
January 18th, 2018, 5:06 am
Sausage Dog -

You'd be better served referring to actual data rather than lists of historical figures. There have been multiple psychological studies made that have established a general view of psychological differences between men and women (Google The Big Five.)
Not entirely related but there was a study published in Denmark I believe that studied men and women alike, genetically speaking, and they came to the conclusion women are stronger than men when it comes to mutations and thus live longer. This is because of the X chromosome that can compensate the mutations in the other X chromosome whilst the men cannot because they lack one.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Burning ghost » January 18th, 2018, 8:57 pm

Littlemoon -

interesting. Over the course of evolution this is relevant, but not really in the scope we're talking about. I think it's already pretty well established that women live longer than men, but I was under the impression that testosterone was the main player in this discrepancy? Maybe I am getting my wires crossed with something else.

There is a reason we trace genetic heritage through women. The human species is quite unique among the primate in regards to sexual selection. Most species show outward signs of ovulation, but humans do not. This allows the females to select partners to father their children more easily than would otherwise be the case.

Off topic though.

One thing this does make me think about is the unseen role of nutrition. It is possible that our recent diet changes have had knock-on effects for each sex. At the moment there is considerable interest in this area (bacterial role in hormone production.)
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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Burning ghost » January 19th, 2018, 3:05 am

Dlaw wrote:
January 18th, 2018, 12:58 pm
Dachshund wrote:
January 18th, 2018, 4:33 am
Europid,

Dachshund.
Those are really the only two words you need to read here.

Racist nonsense plus its purveyor. The rest is eyewash. Lots of eyewash.

Canards, one and all.

Sorry.
His argument is hollow. It makes sense to point out the flaws rather than stating the obvious remarks about race. People are allowed to be racist and/or express racist views.

What is more some people may express certain views and have no overwhelming inclination toward the kind of position those views represent. Like having social opinions does not make someone either a socialist or neo-Marxist.

Sausage Dog does appear to have some issue with race, or at least certain socio-political issue surrounding race. A bit of stirring can be helpful every now and again. He doesn't speak to me anymore though for some reason and has ignored practically every difficult question I've put to him. The ideologues always go silent when the questions get too tricky.
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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Dachshund » January 19th, 2018, 4:23 pm

Burning ghost wrote:
January 19th, 2018, 3:05 am
Dlaw wrote:
January 18th, 2018, 12:58 pm


Those are really the only two words you need to read here.

Racist nonsense plus its purveyor. The rest is eyewash. Lots of eyewash.

Canards, one and all.

Sorry.
His argument is hollow. It makes sense to point out the flaws rather than stating the obvious remarks about race. People are allowed to be racist and/or express racist views

Sausage Dog does appear to have some issue with race, or at least certain socio-political issue surrounding race. A bit of stirring can be helpful every now and again. He doesn't speak to me anymore though for some reason and has ignored practically every difficult question I've put to him. The ideologues always go silent when the questions get too tricky.
Burning Ghost,

Yes, I do believe that the white/Western Europid race is objectively superior to , say, any of the Black African races, or the Australoid races because ( for one reason) there is an overwhelming volume of hard, empirical, scientific evidence that has been collected over the past 40 years of psychometric testing that confirms beyond doubt how, on average, the white populations tested have substantially higher levels of intelligence ( g-factor/ cognitive capacity/IQ) , and intelligence is well known a critical trait which strongly predicts life outcomes in all of the major domains of human endeavour in the modern world: educational, financial, occupational, social/interpersonal, marital/parenting/child-rearing, physical and mental health, criminality, life expectancy and so on.
Also, there is an ever increasing volume of data from investigations in scientific fields like ethology and cognitive evolution, and from cutting-edge research in genetics that suggests biological (i.e.genetic) influences are probably a significant causal factor driving the disparities observed between the average IQs of different racial groupings . In 1995, two Harvard psychologists, Charles Murray and Richard Herrnstein published the results of their research into differences between the average intelligence of white Americans and black African-Americans in a book called "The Bell Curve". In the "Bell Curve" copious evidence was presented by the authors demonstrating that the white populations they tested consistently performed substantially
better on standardized, IQ tests than Blacks. The book caused a storm of controversy and was hotly denounced by liberal academics in the social sciences as it contradicted their standard Marxist position that race was not purely an artificial, man-made "social construct" Now, some 22 years on, advances in science and technology look more and more likely to vindicate Murray and Herrnstein's 1995 findings on racial intelligence with the kind of hard experimental , empirical evidence that cannot be questioned.

But pursuing the question of race is , as you note, strictly-speaking a diversion from the issues raised in the OP, so I will not discuss it it any further here.

BTW, I have not, (that I am aware of), ignored any "difficult questions" that you have put to me on this thread so far ?. If I have done so, please restate them briefly for me and I will happily respond.

Regards

Dachshund

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Greta » January 19th, 2018, 7:34 pm

This is ridiculous - there is far more variance within racial populations than between them; the differences are minor. For instance, the black man, Barack Obama is very much smarter than the white man, Dachshund.

By the way, Dachshund, to which group are you affiliated? Is it Patriot Blue?

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Dachshund » January 19th, 2018, 10:47 pm

Greta wrote:
January 19th, 2018, 7:34 pm
This is ridiculous - there is far more variance within racial populations than between them; the differences are minor. For instance, the black man, Barack Obama is very much smarter than the white man, Dachshund.

By the way, Dachshund, to which group are you affiliated? Is it Patriot Blue?
Not that tired old chestnut again, Gretra? Surely you've worked out the disingenuous sleight of hand here?

No ?

OK, suppose we take a million random fruit bats and study the individual variation in their faces - it would be huge. Same for a population of a million randon cats. In "The Bell Curve" the ultimate comparison between the average IQs of white American populations measured compared to the average IQs of Black African - American populations tested turns out - Murray and Herrnstein are tacitly/ subtly suggesting (due to to the extreme political sensitivity of the whole Black- White racial intelligence question in the US ) to be effectively represent a comparison between cat faces and bat faces, Do you get what I am saying ? (Or do I need to break it down further for you ?)

Regards

Dachshund

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Burning ghost » January 20th, 2018, 12:23 am

Dachshund -

You're aware of the sensitivity of this topic. I would be extremely interested to engage if you make a new thread. I think this thread may have run its course. I am not really for endlessly winding threads and much prefer to establish an advanced position discovered in the initial thread then step up the conversation in a fresh thread.

I have heard an awful lot about racial differences. I am not entirely convinced and that is partially because I don't want it to be true. The evidence looks strong in terms of IQ, but my argument would be that IQ does not mean "superior" human. If that were the case we'd have to start saying Asians were superior ... and if you have something to counter that you'll reveal the intricacies of statistical data and the difficulty in making sweeping generalizations based on one piece of data viewed in one particular way.

I will start a topic on this next week if you don't do so first. Sound good? For now I am still intrigued to hear more about women's rights.
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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Greta » January 20th, 2018, 2:27 am

Dachshund wrote:
January 19th, 2018, 10:47 pm
Greta wrote:
January 19th, 2018, 7:34 pm
This is ridiculous - there is far more variance within racial populations than between them; the differences are minor. For instance, the black man, Barack Obama is very much smarter than the white man, Dachshund.

By the way, Dachshund, to which group are you affiliated? Is it Patriot Blue?
Not that tired old chestnut again, Gretra? Surely you've worked out the disingenuous sleight of hand here?

No ?

OK, suppose we take a million random fruit bats and study the individual variation in their faces - it would be huge. Same for a population of a million randon cats. In "The Bell Curve" the ultimate comparison between the average IQs of white American populations measured compared to the average IQs of Black African - American populations tested turns out - Murray and Herrnstein are tacitly/ subtly suggesting (due to to the extreme political sensitivity of the whole Black- White racial intelligence question in the US ) to be effectively represent a comparison between cat faces and bat faces, Do you get what I am saying ? (Or do I need to break it down further for you ?)
Your argument is simply incoherent. Who gives a damn about population-based IQ tests, that will inevitably have some element of cultural bias.

Personally, I would be happy for voting rights to be allowed based on IQ scores - many more white supremicists would miss out than those who respect diversity.

I take it from your non response that you are a member of a white nationalist group. I think you should tell us so we know what kind of orthodoxy we are dealing with.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Burning ghost » January 20th, 2018, 3:01 am

Greta/Sausage Dog -

IQ is not the be all and end all of morality, wisdom, nor productivity. High IQ does not make one "superior."

If you're a member of such a group that Greta mentions then I am happy to listen and converse with you. My stance is that reason will show certain errors in your bias (and we all have some bias.) I should add that I don't believe saying something 'racist' makes someone inherently 'racist.'

In the same light as sexual difference it is worth discussion, simply so we can point out the differences and the significance of such differences (not to mentions the reasons why and how these points seem to present themselves in the statistics and work thorugh what we read into them compared to what we're missing out.)

As an example Jews tend to have higher IQ. They also tend to suffer form a higher level of brain disorders. Does this mean that high IQ means a greater chance of brain disorders? Not really. A correlation is simply a correlation; just like certain building in New York lining up with certain religious sites around the globe means very little in terms of causation.

Investigation of these interesting topics brings about a lot more than mere political disagreements. In fact I would say it would be highly productive to investigate in order to better understand and re-evaluate presupposed ideas. We must necessarily paint everyone we communicate with in a certain way, but we needn't become fixated on such portraits when we're all quite unique and short-sighted in our own silly little ways.

Just like I can be patronizing (see above!) Hahha!
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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Steve3007 » January 20th, 2018, 4:37 am

Dachshund wrote:OK, suppose we take a million random fruit bats and study the individual variation in their faces - it would be huge. Same for a population of a million randon cats. In "The Bell Curve" the ultimate comparison between the average IQs of white American populations measured compared to the average IQs of Black African - American populations tested turns out - ... to effectively represent a comparison between cat faces and bat faces,...
I'm not entirely sure what you're saying here so maybe it is best if it's stated a little bit more explicitly and clearly. You appear to be drawing a comparison between the facial resemblances of members of two different mammal species (bats and cats) and the ability to do well in various tests of members of the same species who are grouped by a vaguely defined combination of skin colour and the geographical origins of some of their recent ancestors. You appear to be suggesting that this implies a difference between these groups of people which is analogous to the difference between bats and cats?

If so, I don't really see it. As I understand it (with my limited knowledge of genetics) it's possible to tell if an individual is a bat or a cat by examining their genome. The distinction between the definition of "cat" and "bat" is unambiguous (or as unambiguous as anything gets in nature). It's not a matter of opinion or personal choice/identity.

That doesn't appear to be true of the distinction between "White American" and "Black American". I don't know of a test which unambiguously sorts people into one of those two groups, leaving no room for opinion. This is why in Apartheid South Africa, where they had to attempt to distinguish between white and black unambiguously because it was a matter of law, it was such a problem. They had strange subjective tests like measuring the curliness of people's hair - "the pencil test" (For hair. Not to be confused with a different pencil test.)

I think this is why some people categorize the concept of "race" as a social construct, as opposed to an objectively quantifiable property of human beings. It doesn't appear to be possible to state as a fact "this person is white" or "this person is black" in the same way that it is possible to state as a fact "this mammal is a bat" or "this mammal is a cat". There appear to be such things as opinion and personal choice/identity involved.

An example of an article discussing the subject here:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... sts-argue/

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Greta » January 20th, 2018, 6:32 pm

BG, I agree. I personally think that international competition and coordination will increasingly become so critical to government decisions that these kinds of notions are theoretical only. Given the intensity of competition in the global arena, this kind of pointless discrimination will increasingly be seen as simply squandering the potential of available human resources.

In the end it's individuals' capabilities that matter.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Steve3007 » January 21st, 2018, 8:43 am

Regarding the idea of repealing the 19th amendment to the US constitution and preventing women from having a say in the selection of their government, I guess it's obvious that this idea of silencing women is similar to the views of groups like the Taliban. But I think it's interesting to see just how similarly extreme they are. This website seems to closely mirror the views expressed by Daschund:

http://fathersmanifesto.net/19th.htm

Note the desire for women to be literally silent (not just at the ballot box but also in all other contexts), submissive and to not mix with men. And note the technique, rooted in the founding mythology of Adam and Eve, of attributing to women absolutely everything that is deemed to be negative, from men drinking and driving to male homosexuality. There really does seem to be a quite deeply entrenched and longstanding tradition in more than one culture that everything bad is the fault of women and that women should be punished for this. Psychologically, very interesting, if deeply disturbing.

I think one of the important lessons to take from this is that we shouldn't look at places like Afghanistan under the Taliban and think that the reasons for their attitudes are to do with some fundamental difference between them and us. It's the old "banality of evil" lesson. We humans have the same potential failings and psychological demons everywhere. The similar attitudes and world views expressed by the likes of Daschund and the writers of the above website may be a minority in the west, but they clearly do exist and are every bit as extreme as both the current attitudes of extremists today and the attitudes of mainstream figures from our own relatively recent past.

So women: Be noisy! Be everything that these fascist attitudes (and I wouldn't use that word if it was not appropriate), which apparently still exist all over the world, don't want you to be. I never thought I could ever describe myself as a feminist, but maybe there really is still a battle that needs to be fought.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Dachshund » January 21st, 2018, 5:04 pm

Dlaw wrote:
January 12th, 2018, 2:07 pm
Burning ghost wrote:
January 12th, 2018, 10:53 am

If you have some conclusive evidence and solution to all the problems of humanity then please share with us ;) I don't really think we're in a horrible place right now over all. Caution is always needed and taking selective data can support almost any claim. I generally see all this as part of humanity coming to terms with the information explosion. I could present several different opposing arguments as to why feminism has been good or bad for the stability of the planet, so what?
See, I don't think you can.

Where is the example of feminism's causing violence and instability?
Dlaw repeatedly insists that the feminist movement in justified in the respect that it aims to remediate the innately violent and antisocial nature of the hegemonic male patriarchy in the West. He repeatedly emphasises that feminism is, without exception, a benevolent, pacific and prosocial movement that has had no violent, antisocial or destabilising social repercussions in the West. I disagree, and in this post I will demonstrate just one of the many ways in which feminism has bought widespread, antisocial violence to bear upon contemporary Western society


Let me begin my response by defining the terms "violence" and "antisocial". I define "violence" as the use of extreme force intended to hurt, harm or destroy". Moreover, violence is a multidimensional construct and there are various types of violence, namely: physical, sexual, emotional, psychological, cultural, verbal abuse, financial and neglect. "Antisocial", I define as that which is opposed to, or detrimental to social order/cohesion or the principles upon which a society is constituted.

Once of my principal criticisms of feminism in this debate has been that the feminist movement has undermined the traditional, patriarchal, nuclear family unit and that this unit, has, without exception, provided the critical foundation upon which every civilization in human history over the past 6000 years has been grounded. The traditional nuclear family in the West was grounded upon a respect for the conventional institution of marriage as a legally - binding commitment between a man and a woman to a lifelong relationship of (hetero)sexual monogamy. Beginning in the late 1960s with the formation of militant, extremist feminist political organizations like Betty Friedan's "National Association of Women" (NOW) in the United States, the so-called "second wave" of feminist political activism launched a fanatical onslaught against the institution of marriage, an onslaught that was indeed successful given the fact that from its first "victory" in 1970 with the legislation of the "no-fault" divorce in California, it rapidly sent divorce rates in the West steadily sky-rocketing to the point where, today, in the US, UK and other Western nations like Australia, roughly 40% of marriages now end in divorce.

Before I document the diverse kinds of violent, antisocial fall-out that the feminist offensive against marriage and the traditional family has spread through Western societies ( and I will use the USA as an exemplar) let me give you some examples of the type of rhetoric utilized by key leaders of the feminist movement in the US in their attack against the traditional institution of marriage over the past decades to date...



* LINDA GORDON: " the nuclear family must be destroyed...Whatever its ultimate meaning, the break-up of families is now an objective, revolutionary process".

*ROBIN MORGAN: "We can't destroy the inequities between men and women until we destroy marriage".

*MARY JO BANE: "In order to raise children with equality we must take them away from families and communally raise them".

* GLORIA STEINEM: ""F**k marriage... Let's destroy the entire f**king patriarchy".

*BETTY FRIEDAN: "Women who "adjust" as housewives, who grow up wanting to be just a housewife" are in as much danger as the millions who walked to their own death in the Nazi concentration camps...they are suffering a slow death of mind and spirit".

VIVIAN GORNICK: ""Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession. The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that".

ANDREA DWORKIN: " "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking it. Freedom for women cannot be won without the destruction of marriage".

HELEN SULLINGER: "WE must destroy marriage...the end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women".

KATE MILLETT: "...so long as every female, simply by virtue of her anatomy, is obliged, even forced, to be the primary caretaker of childhood, she is prevented from being a full human being".


These are, in my opinion, the self-evidently extreme, fanatical, hate-fuelled outbursts of a cadre of very bitter and twisted individuals, and they serve well to expose the intrinsically violent, antisocial and destructive nature of feminist cultural Marxism.

Next, let's take a brief look at some of the VIOLENT, ANTISOCIAL, SOCIALLY DESTABILIZING consequences of feminism's ongoing assault on the traditional institution of marriage in the United States. (Note: for each of the bullet points I will set out below, any claims that I make can be supported by hard, empirical evidence in the form of either citations from the relevant, reputable mainstream academic literature or in the form of references to published government statistical analyses, etc.if requested. The fact is ,there is F**king much of it, I didn't know where to begin in selecting examples, and listing it all of the evidence for each and every claim made would take far too much time).



* The vast majority of mothers in the US today, now believe that absent or uninvolved fathers can be easily replaced by another, despite the evidence that stable marriages lead to happier, healthier, more motivate and better socially adjusted children, which in turn create stronger communities, more opportunities and GREATER EQUALITY.

*In terms of physical health, compared with children in stable, intact, married families, children in cohabiting households are more likely to have a physical or mental health condition and are three times more likely to suffer physical, sexual or emotional abuse.

*Children raised by single mothers are more likely to be prescribed potent amphetamine - type psychostimulant medication for diagnosed ADHD and are more likely to require professional treatment for a variety of psychological (cognitive, mood, emotional, etc) and behavioural problems. As adults, children who grew up with married parents are less likely to have problems with mental health ( this is particularly true for daughters).

* Both physical and mental health are substantially influenced by socioeconomic status. Children of single parents (4 out of 5 of which are female) are far more likely to grow up in poverty and have lower rates of upward mobility than children of married parents. The current gynocentric welfare State system in the Us discourages single mothers from establishing a stable two-parent household despite a portion of welfare funds allocated to promote this kind of family structure. The reason for this is that women who marry or maintain a home with the biological father can face the reduction or loss of their benefits. Consequently, children who grow up on welfare are more likely to grow up on welfare themselves, thus perpetuating the cycle.

* Daughters of single mothers are more likely to engage in early sexual behaviour and become teenage mothers, which, in turn,m makes them more likely to grow up relying on State welfare and their children less likely to grow up with fathers. The mjority of prison inmates, as well, grew up without fathers.

*Children of single parents have significantly higher rates of drug use and substance use disorders. Teens who have less than three family dinners a week are four times more likely to use tobacco, two and one half times more likely to use cannabis and nearly four times more likely to engage in future drug use.

*Children of married parents have fewer learning disorders, score higher in reading, higher in verbal and problem - solving skills, better on most academic measures, and better on the majority of social competence measures. Children who grow up without fathers are less likely to attend college ( especially true for sons).

* One of the longest running studies on adult development, the Harvard Grant Study, found that men with warm childhoods - those who had close relationships with parents who were married and at least one sibling - made 50% more money than their peers who grew up with separated parents or in hostile household.

I could go on and on (AND ON) but I do not wish to be accused of submitting another tedious "wall o' text" post. So let me finish now by saying to feminst advocates like Dlaw and to nascent/ "curious", would-be or wannabe feminists like Steve3007 ( Shame Steve, shame !!) that in short, the incontrovertible fact is that the feminist movement, has, for 50 years now savagely attacked and continuously endeavoured to destroy the institution of traditional , patriarchal marriage and that Western civilization in its entirety is now reaping the bitter harvest, in exactly the same way as the Roman Empire did before it ultimately collapsed for almost exactly the same fundamental reason.

In terms of the antisocial violence it has inflicted on American ( and Western, in general) society, the sheer enormity of the human despair misery, suffering, hardship, privation, mental and physical illness, sexual/emotional abuse, drug abuse/addiction mortality ( through suicide, for example) is inexpressible...ineffable.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Greta » January 21st, 2018, 5:13 pm

Steve, as with religion, it's the push back of dying, cornered animal. All women need do is be cautious about the teeth as it thrashes, but in time it will simply become redundant.

Dachshund appears to be unwilling to reveal his group affiliations. I'm guessing it's the National Front because and they release information similar to John's reference material.

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Re: Changes in society correlated with the rise of women's rights

Post by Dachshund » January 21st, 2018, 6:33 pm

Those of you who are old enough will remember how in 1965, Barry McGuire, had a huge hit with a pop song called "Eve of Destruction". If you aren't familiar with it, the song was about the Cold War Cuban missile crisis that played out between JFK and the soviet leadership in the Kremlin in the October of 1962, when the insane brinkmanship of total nuclear annihilation, placed the world on the very cusp of total thermonuclear annihilation. McGuire's song is about how many people in the West didn't seem to really understand just how close they had truly come ,three years before, to the ultimate "Game Over". McGuire was right; in the time since the Cuban Missile Crisis went down historians of the Cold War have unearthed chilling new evidence to the effect that Jack Kennedy and his advisors in the White House did not know just how precarious and volatile the whole situation in Cuba actually was.

The reason I mention this song is that I heard on my car radio this afternoon and I thought to myself how uncannily apposite it was for the West today in 2018, well over 50 years since the Cuban Crisis. I look about me and I see the unmistakable signs of our Civilization going down in a potentially terminal spiral of social and cultural decline. I think to myself s**t, am I the only person who is seeing this, the big ship we call "Western Civilization" is going down big time, like the "Titanic" , and people just don't seem to get it - evidently, the penny hasn't yet dropped. As McGuire might say, it appears the inhabitant of the late West simply "don't believe we're on the eve of destruction". We are. We struck a giant submerged iceberg early in the 20th century when women's suffrage was ratified - soon after water began gushing into the engine room below decks in the in the form of feminist extremism (i.e. "hammer and sickle" Marxism hiding itself behind a pair of **** and a *****), now the water is starting to flood the upper levels and people are drowning en masse. If we don't do something fast to repair the huge "gash" that was torn in the hull we're all -in my humble opinion - totally F**KED.

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