Burning ghost wrote: ↑January 11th, 2018, 11:32 pm
So the message above is that if men "oppress" men then it is nature, but when men oppress women it is oppression?
If you look up the word "Oppression" you'll find that it is the basic definition of what we now call "tyrannical rule".
EASY THERE, I never excused men oppressing men. Clearly I condemned all slaveholding as absolutely barbaric.
My point is that when slaveholders USE the natural attachment between women and their children as a means of control, it does two things:
1) Increases the PSYCHOLOGICAL cruelty (it may actually decrease the physical cruelty).
2) Normalizes violence and then "folds in" this violence to society.
All forms of law and governing are necessarily likened to "oppression." When people don't like some law or governing body they feel "oppressed." There is a considerable difference between "feeling" something and having something enacted upon you.
Is this anything other than a straw man argument?
That's all I can see in it, to be honest.
I would call feminism a tool for progress in countries where women cannot vote. I generally think feminism, in the western world, has run its course because there is no "oppression" of women in the west anymore - unless we're talking about reducing the idea of "oppression" to mean that which doesn't allow complete and utter freedom without suffering the consequences of said freedom.
So the straw man was to back up this weak junk?
Billions of Muslim women are taught every day that they are half as valuable as a man.
Oppression.
Billions of Catholic women are taught every day that only men can talk to God.
Oppression.
Billions of women in all the Abrahamic faiths are taught, every day, that their bodies are shameful, dirty, that they are responsible for all sexual misconduct that is committed 99% of the time by men.
And then there's the fact that men are responsible for almost all criminal behavior apart from prostitution and of course prostitution is rife with oppression.
Western democracy has stopped none of these oppressive practices by men on women.
Over all it is difficult to pinpoint meaningful correlations between societal changes and the rise of women's rights.
Sure, if you're not looking.
There were already so many things in play that had gained considerable momentum before women's right become an issue. The indudtrial revolution and general technological advances had nothing to do with the rise of women's rights directly. It could be argued that the freedoms given to some people by way of the industrial revolution and production of more writing led to those less heard to become more heard in society at large.
The idea of "feminism" could also be argued to be a "patriarchal" idea. FOr if men were the dominant force in society then they could quash any "uprising" with brute force. This didn't happen because many men were happy to see the changes in the social dynamic and allowed, and encouraged, women to pursue more idverse roles in society at large beyond being seen as wife and mother (which are still important today, although the "wife" idea has been bludgeoned a fair bit; this is likely to do with kickback against religious institutions than an actual feminism "achievement.") Which opens up another immense change in modern society, religion. So when we look at religious ideological changes and their role in western society, industry and production leading to commercialism and new economics, and huge leaps forward in scientific progress and technological know how; I find it diffifult to untangle the effect of feminism among all of this - I would simply lump it in with the rise of secular democratic society that allowed many tyrannical regimes to either adapt or die.
There's a large amount of tyranny in the world. If men and women were equal, we would expect tyranny to at least SOMETIMES be administered by women. We find no examples, therefore your premise is wrong.
I think Steve Pinker put it best. All radical movements run there course and once they've achieved their goals some people hang on to them and push them beyond their original intention. At the moment I view the most publicized side of feminism to be little more than fear mongering and purposely being on the attack rather than simply guarding its achievements.
You need to re-read Pinker, and this time read to the end.
Let men be men and let women be women. If you honestly think there is no difference between the two you're likely delusional and possibly a serious danger to your self and others.
So you left the worst straw man for last.
It's on fire, so you may want to get another.
Correlations? Such hackneyed historical research is merely the ideological mindset of someone like Foucault. Dig into the past and extract whatever meaning you wish to suit your needs. I don't buy it as a explicit truth of the world. Interpreting facts in different ways doesn't change the actual facts.
To what "facts" do you refer. I see none here.
As a man, I'm telling you that you have to face the fact you're a misogynist. A lot of men are. It's very unfortunate.