I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

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Pages
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

Post by Pages »

SimpleGuy wrote: February 2nd, 2018, 12:41 pm
Pages wrote: February 2nd, 2018, 11:41 am First of all,
If nobody knows the actual aim of life's existence, why do we uphold the views of other philosophers?
Yes, some people are too lazy to think but, those people are not philosophers and I'd like to think most of the people in this forum are, more or less.
My point: As far as I'm concerned and as wide as I've read, no philosopher has solved any philosophical problem. Most either point out common sense or settle on a theory at best.
Most things I see in philosophical forums are reiterations, repetitions and quotations. Don't we have philosophers anymore?
First of all, after statistical physics this aim cannot be constant in time unless it's simply beeing exterminate. So the "goal" of life itself, has either to change or it's path dependent on the set of stochastic processes. The more interesting question is not the goal as a single state, but the existence of some kind of utility function, that contains for humans more than simple evolution. The philosophy then of the reason of life are the consequences
of such a utility function , which could include moral and would then have implications on ethics. This has to be seen in correspondence of the evolution of our scientific picture of this world.
We cannot be certain whether the goal is changing/have changed or what we term as change is simply nature's predetermined means to an end.
I don't know why I'm finding it difficult to believe that humans or any other creature on earth are nothing more than just weeds on a farm - just happen to be here and that's it. Maybe that is why we would never find any logical meaning to our existence. Because there is none

If there is any utility function that we are part of then, we would be parasites or viruses to whatever that is. Unless that utility function needs these type of cancer to accomplish it's natural evolutionary or developmental goal, we're useless and unnecessary.
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

Post by SimpleGuy »

Pages wrote: February 2nd, 2018, 5:01 pm If there is any utility function that we are part of then, we would be parasites or viruses to whatever that is. Unless that utility function needs these type of cancer to accomplish it's natural evolutionary or developmental goal, we're useless and unnecessary.
With this type of utility modelling you simply exclude social interaction and cooperation as well as financial interaction of people isn't that primitive.
Without these influences a modern technological society couldn't exist. The implication on this utility function , even if this is a biological one could
be quite outstanding philosophical as well as mathematical.

One could argument that this cannot be included into a biological utility function, but nevertheless animals like dolphins, chimpanzees and some
birds exhibit complex social behaviour.
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

Post by Burning ghost »

Pages wrote: February 2nd, 2018, 11:41 am First of all,
If nobody knows the actual aim of life's existence, why do we uphold the views of other philosophers?
Yes, some people are too lazy to think but, those people are not philosophers and I'd like to think most of the people in this forum are, more or less.
My point: As far as I'm concerned and as wide as I've read, no philosopher has solved any philosophical problem. Most either point out common sense or settle on a theory at best.
Most things I see in philosophical forums are reiterations, repetitions and quotations. Don't we have philosophers anymore?

Secondly,
Why philosophize at all? The more one knows or searches, the more one realizes how little one knows. People who actually philosophize would understand. Philosophers would be miserable people because they dig till they die, knowing fully well that they won't find answers but, still go ahead to think because they have trained their minds not to be able to think about anything else. Is it human nature to just create problems by any means?
Firstly, you're wrong. Many people on this forum are lazy thinkers. We're all stupid and sloth-like in our own way, some out of choice and others out of circumstance.

Secondly, what you are saying is something like saying "Why teach children math, let them just work it out for themselves?" Why uphold the views of other philosophers? Why uphold the views of Einstein or Newton? See the point? We keep what is useful and discard the rest (there is something of a pragmatism about how we select "useful" knowledge.) That said, we don't use hammers to chop down trees, but we don't simply discard the hammer as a useless item!

Thirdly, you need to know what you mean when you say "aim of existence", and understand the assumptions you're standing on by making such a statement - I don't think you do.

Fourthly, "Don't we have philosophers anymore?" Of course we do. The problem is they're not usually appreciated until their long dead - such is the life of the extraordinary thinker. The last philosophical genius we had was Nietzsche. He was recgnised in his time as someone special, but it wasn't until much later that people really began to appreciate the extent of his genius - my personal view is that the whole of the 20th century has been a struggle for every thinker to measure up to his challenge of revitalizing the field of philosophy. We're likely in the era for such a person to step forward, and I would imagine that once the "someone" comes along we'll rethink our distinctions, not just of "philosophy", but of "science", "religion", and "art" too. I think we're closing in on a complete re-evaluation of what it means to be "human."

But hey! I'm just someone who riles against philosophy, and like yourself, find it annoying that people would rather read about what someone has to say about someone else's work rather than applying themselves to the actual work as it was written instead of reiterating the reiterations of others - that is a worthy task but not one I am inclined to take up without serious reason!

note: I think it makes perfect sense to just lock yourself in a room first and THINK. Once you've got some kind of view then look for ways to challenge through the words of those gone before you. The "lazy" ones are those who read before thinking, who parrot the words of others, and who cannot fight with themselves (that is the hardest thing to do.)
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

Post by Hereandnow »

The "lazy" ones are those who read before thinking, who parrot the words of others, and who cannot fight with themselves (that is the hardest thing to do.)
Have to take issue on that one: one goes into a text of philosophy prepared, or getting it will be impossible. These philosophers don't write in a vacuum, they are very, very well versed in the themes handed to them by their predecessors. Granted, one can see Derrida's point about difference and differance without reading Kant, but to fully get this idea it is a profound intellectual commitment.
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

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Burning ghost wrote: February 4th, 2018, 3:19 am Firstly, you're wrong. Many people on this forum are lazy thinkers. We're all stupid and sloth-like in our own way, some out of choice and others out of circumstance.

Secondly, what you are saying is something like saying "Why teach children math, let them just work it out for themselves?" Why uphold the views of other philosophers? Why uphold the views of Einstein or Newton? See the point? We keep what is useful and discard the rest (there is something of a pragmatism about how we select "useful" knowledge.) That said, we don't use hammers to chop down trees, but we don't simply discard the hammer as a useless item!
I was talking about life philosophy, not science and technology.
Einstein wasn't a philosopher, neither was Newton
Burning ghost wrote: February 4th, 2018, 3:19 am Thirdly, you need to know what you mean when you say "aim of existence", and understand the assumptions you're standing on by making such a statement - I don't think you do
Trust me, I'm not lazy. I said (or mean that) we do not know the aim of existence. There is no assumption there.
Burning ghost wrote: February 4th, 2018, 3:19 am Fourthly, "Don't we have philosophers anymore?" Of course we do. The problem is they're not usually appreciated until their long dead - such is the life of the extraordinary thinker. The last philosophical genius we had was Nietzsche. He was recgnised in his time as someone special, but it wasn't until much later that people really began to appreciate the extent of his genius - my personal view is that the whole of the 20th century has been a struggle for every thinker to measure up to his challenge of revitalizing the field of philosophy. We're likely in the era for such a person to step forward, and I would imagine that once the "someone" comes along we'll rethink our distinctions, not just of "philosophy", but of "science", "religion", and "art" too. I think we're closing in on a complete re-evaluation of what it means to be "human."

But hey! I'm just someone who riles against philosophy, and like yourself, find it annoying that people would rather read about what someone has to say about someone else's work rather than applying themselves to the actual work as it was written instead of reiterating the reiterations of others - that is a worthy task but not one I am inclined to take up without serious reason!

note: I think it makes perfect sense to just lock yourself in a room first and THINK. Once you've got some kind of view then look for ways to challenge through the words of those gone before you. The "lazy" ones are those who read before thinking, who parrot the words of others, and who cannot fight with themselves (that is the hardest thing to do.)
When I first saw this thread I thought it would be more of that ( thought brushing against thoughts) but, I came in and found a quotation fest
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
Pages
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

Post by Pages »

Hereandnow wrote: February 4th, 2018, 12:46 pm The "lazy" ones are those who read before thinking, who parrot the words of others, and who cannot fight with themselves (that is the hardest thing to do.)
Have to take issue on that one: one goes into a text of philosophy prepared, or getting it will be impossible. These philosophers don't write in a vacuum, they are very, very well versed in the themes handed to them by their predecessors. Granted, one can see Derrida's point about difference and differance without reading Kant, but to fully get this idea it is a profound intellectual commitment.
The ratio of level of difficulty of thinking to understanding someone else's work is like 10:3
The people who were trying to make this world worse are not taking the day off. Why should I?
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

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It's rough. Gotta want it.
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Re: I am only here to talk about deep philosophy

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Gangle spooked.
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