Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

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Georgeanna
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Georgeanna »

:)
As they say in this part of the world: 'Carry on, MacDuff !'
Londoner
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Londoner »

Spectrum wrote: May 8th, 2018, 3:24 am One reason why it is so tedious to read BT is the tons of words that Heidegger twisted to his own meaning and context.
All words are twisted to context. They have no meaning apart from in context. If you want to present a new context, as you often do in philosophy, then you have to show that your words do not have their normal meaning.

If we go through somebody like Heidegger and try to translate him into everyday English we will entirely miss his meaning. Rather, we have to somehow first begin to grasp the overall philosophy in order to understand the words in which it is explained - and also to understand the inadequacy of language to express certain ideas.
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Since Being is disclosed through language Heidegger is concerned (sorge - care) with the etymology of words. It is not simply that Heidegger perversely chooses to use words in novel ways, but rather he attempts to bring to light how Being is originally revealed in language in ways that have become occluded as words change their meaning over time. But his interest is not simply philological. Language shows our ways of being in the world. Rather than limit language by a return to etymological roots (the etymology of the term etymology means the study of the true sense of words), this retrieval is an expansion and re-connection of what has been severed through time. It is a way for us to hear what our words are saying that have been forgotten. For Heidegger the meaning of words is not simply how they are being used. They speak our relation to Being through, over, and in time.
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Spectrum »

Fooloso4, agree with your point. From Heidegger's point of view, he believed the whole of Western Philosophy [he always qualified this] since Socrates to his time had been misled down the wrong path on the question and meaning of 'being' [sein]. (personally I do not agree with his view on this).
One of the reason for that is the typical characteristic of language and how it often trap people into customs, habits and complacency.

I agree Heidegger did not change meanings of words perversely. However to break that habitualized state, Heidegger has to 'twist' deliberately the normal meaning of words that has been used typically in relation to being.

Londoner, I agree with your point, we often have to invent words or introduce different meanings in context, but what is notable with Heidegger is the quantity of new words and words with his own context [note the list I provide earlier]. Whilst I complain on the task to cope with such numbers, I believe it was necessary for Heidegger to get his point across. I think he explained in various places why he was doing it.

The later Heidegger reached limit with common language to the extent he turned to highlighting the pros of poetry.

Long ago, Buddhism [& other Eastern Philosophy] understood the limitation of language in conveying the meaning of 'being' and 'reality' that they resorted to using paradoxes and contradictions. Note the use of koans in Chinese and Japanese Zen, e.g. "what is the sound of one hand clapping" etc.
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Spectrum
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Problem of Different Translations

Post by Spectrum »

Another very tedious and burdensome problem with reading BT is the the different translations by various translators.
This is made worst by the number of Heidegger-specific German concepts that are translated.

Note the German word, 'Vorhandenheit' translated as;
  • 1. 'Presence-at-hand' by Macquarie and Johnson
    2. 'Objective Presence' by Stambaugh
    3. 'Occurrent' by Dreyfus'
    4. extantness - Hofstadter
    5. 'Occurrent' by Blatner
The above is merely one German word, there are many of such kind.

I started off with the Stambaugh's translation [the one initially downloaded] but there is a need to refer to the older and more popular translation by Macquarie and Johnson.

Due to the difficulty of BT, there is need to refer to various commentators of BT e.g. Dreyfus and those who provide guidelines, etc. The problem is some authors would prefer their own English translation for each German word.

Another problem is most of these authors do not provide the German equivalent within the pages [other than a list at the end of somewhere in the book] in their book and articles.

Most of the concepts used in BT are already difficult to understand, just imagine when they are worded differently by various authors.

Tip:
One tip to deal with the above problem is to prepare a list in Excel listing the translations of words used by the various authors in different columns. I have an excel of 120 words used differently by various authors.
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Spectrum
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Technique to Read Difficult Texts

Post by Spectrum »

What Is Close Reading?
Close reading is thoughtful, critical analysis of a text that focuses on significant details or patterns in order to develop a deep, precise understanding of the text’s form, craft, meanings, etc. It is a key requirement of the Common Core State Standards and directs the reader’s attention to the text itself.

Close reading includes:
  •  Using short passages and excerpts
     Diving right into the text with limited pre-reading activities
     Focusing on the text itself
     Rereading deliberately
     Reading with a pencil
     Noticing things that are confusing
     Discussing the text with others
    • o Think-Pair Share or Turn and Talk frequently
      o Small groups and whole class
     Responding to text-dependent questions
https://nieonline.com/tbtimes/downloads ... eading.pdf
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Georgeanna
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Georgeanna »

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Burning ghost
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Burning ghost »

I’ve been asking for a quoted definition of Da-Sein that makes sense for around 3 years.

No one can do it. I’ve looked myself and not even Heidegger bothered to elucidate his meaning (I assume, like 80% of the words in his work, that he was being verbose to look smart rather than to communicate something of value.)

As a test of patience it is worth a read - and there are some bits that jump out and surprise from time to time. Over all it goes nowhere and takes an incredible amount of time doing so leaving the reader wondering why they’ve just read something that could’ve but written in a tenth of the space.)
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Burning ghost
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Burning ghost »

Fooloso4 wrote: May 8th, 2018, 9:08 am Since Being is disclosed through language Heidegger is concerned (sorge - care) with the etymology of words. It is not simply that Heidegger perversely chooses to use words in novel ways, but rather he attempts to bring to light how Being is originally revealed in language in ways that have become occluded as words change their meaning over time. But his interest is not simply philological. Language shows our ways of being in the world. Rather than limit language by a return to etymological roots (the etymology of the term etymology means the study of the true sense of words), this retrieval is an expansion and re-connection of what has been severed through time. It is a way for us to hear what our words are saying that have been forgotten. For Heidegger the meaning of words is not simply how they are being used. They speak our relation to Being through, over, and in time.
Husserl already brought this to light. It was nothing more than a footnote in Husserl’s work because he likely realized the folly in pursuing such a route?
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Salola »

Burning ghost wrote: June 3rd, 2018, 11:19 am I’ve been asking for a quoted definition of Da-Sein that makes sense for around 3 years.

No one can do it. I’ve looked myself and not even Heidegger bothered to elucidate his meaning (I assume, like 80% of the words in his work, that he was being verbose to look smart rather than to communicate something of value.)

As a test of patience it is worth a read - and there are some bits that jump out and surprise from time to time. Over all it goes nowhere and takes an incredible amount of time doing so leaving the reader wondering why they’ve just read something that could’ve but written in a tenth of the space.)
Dasein is Human being (anthropology) or subject (philosophy) thought as life context (Diltheys Lebenszusammenhang). Or Husserls natural attitude. Husserl makes a distinction between naturalistic natural attitude and personal natural attitude (spiritual, cultural non-naturalistic attitude is also natural).

Here is a link to Husserls Ideen II. In section three "The constitution of the spiritual world" Husserl describes phenomenologically the personalistic world in contrast to the naturalistic world.

https://archive.org/details/IdeasPartIi

Heidegger tries to think in a new way this somebody or something which is at the center of everything (Being). Or he tries to think what this means that somebody or something is at the center of Being. How and to "whom" this Being is revealed? Whom or how is truth experienced or revealed?
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Burning ghost
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Burning ghost »

Again .,, still waiting for a reference to Heidegger’s actual words with citations. I have a copy of B&T so please show me where he makes his definition of Dasein clear.

I am not interested in opinions or summations of what you, or anyone else, thinks Dasein means. I want Heidegger’s words saying what it means before my eyes. I am willing to assume I missed it on several passes; until then it’s just hot air to me (although I did appreciate some of what he wrote and how he presented some thoughts - for the most part I found B&T to be a collection of floating ideas.)
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DannieCooksey
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by DannieCooksey »

I have been reading and researching Heidegger's Being and Time [BT] for more than a month on a full time basis. However I noted it is getting tough to grasp Heidegger's ideas in BT fully in a short time.
I am reading Joan Stambaugh's translation as main and backed by Macquarie & Robinson's, both are ebooks.
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Burning ghost
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by Burning ghost »

Then please note Stambaugh’s attempts to splice in meaning to Heidegger’s written words. As they stand (without Stambaugh’s serious effort to elucidate meaning - and one which seems to have failed for the most part) Heidegger is less than clear, terms run into each other, and the reader is left to read on under the assumption that Heidegger is a deep thinker and that they are left wanting rather than the text. Misplaced humility is dangerous.

There is a gist expressed by Heidegger, but he fails to ground it. Husserl NEVER attempted to ground meaning of mere words.

If you want something challenging to read stick to Kant and Neitzsche. The later is a minefield! CoPR is likely one of the most fulfilling (and challenging) reads I’ve taken up.

As for Neitzsche ... I got about a third through Thus Spake realized I didn’t have a good enough understanding of Greek philosophy/mythology and the approaches of Aristotle and Plato toward aesthetics in general.

The biggest mistake I found in Heidegger’s writing was somethingI believe Kant commented on about writing philosophy - that is the mistake of introducing too many new terms and/or claiming existing terms to mean something removed from how they are perceived in academia. Kant was also sparse on analogies - which I believe is an area that could’ve helped him a lot.

As for “efficient reading” - ignore the introductions and commentaries, ignore what your lecture says, and think about what “being” means, what “time” means and what “meaning” means. Think long and hard for your own set of questions and ideas, have a variety of approaches and then (and ONLY then) read the text draw your own opinions and then (and ONLY then) read/listen what others have to say about it.

It’s a tedious process, but if you really want to get the most of it I know of no better ideal approach than this. The reason behind this is simple enough. If you read one interpretation you are conditioning yourself - in agreement or opposition - to the views expressed. By doing this your mindset becomes fixated on certain points. Only by coming at the raw text alone can you draw your own conclusions that may otherwise be buried under the views and perspectives of others. Ironically this is basically the kind of thing Heidegger does express well enough (albeit in a frustrating prolonged manner IMO.)

Of course if you’re studying to deadline as part of a course you have decide whether you want to understand or whether you merely wish to pass the course by parroting a collection of thoughts from other people.

I had a long debate with someone years ago about Kant (because they kept on referring to him.) so I went out and bought a copy of CoPR and went at it - took about year to get through in my spare time - only odor the other person to turn around and reveal that they’d never actually read the full text ... believe it or not even those who clai to have studied Kant at university NEVER actually read the text, they just relied on the academic commentary of others and what their lecturer/s had to say about them (obviously with some appropriate quotes.)

The real interest within metaphysics is aesthetics and ethics. The rest is just political posturing - where you can get some serious insight to the theatrical machinations if you decide to bang your head against the wall of Neitzsche (via literary criticism, Aristotle & Plato on rhetoric, whilst taking into consideration things written by Geertz, Jung and Eliade and general human behavior.) The scientific method can take you so far, but the point of the “artistic” is met up with. Heidegger doesn’t bridge the gap, Neitzsche likely made a better attempt, but he’s hard to read and harder to understand (constantly found myself trying to relate his analogies to Greek mythos.)

Note: If you find a way to explicate what “Dasein” means please do so by providing the relevant quotes from Heidegger’s work. Thanks.
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ThomasHobbes
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

The most efficient way to read Being and Time, is to place it in metal floor mounted receptacle. Then read the entries in Stanford Online.
Alternatively you can spend the next ten years learning German and then try to read the thing.
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Re: Any Tips on Reading 'Being and Time' Efficiently?

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Dasein: the will
Ready to hand: so familiar you don't even notice it
Present at hand: stuff that is around that might be useful

The rest is just packing windbaggery.
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