Heidegger: All Prior Western Views of Being Are Wrong!

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Heidegger: All Prior Western Views of Being Are Wrong!

Post by Spectrum »

Fooloso4 wrote: July 27th, 2018, 7:58 am Spectrum:
It is not my lone voice since I do align [not totally] with the Allison's camp.
Does Allison say that the thing in itself is an illusion? Where? No song and dance, just direct quotes stating that the thing in itself is an illusion.

I am not going to rehash your questionable interpretation again. Rather than provide evidence of Kant saying that the thing in itself is an illusion you fall back on the mistakes of the philosophical realist.

Burning ghost has rightly brought the discussion back to Heidegger, but you have made it abundantly clear that there is no point in me pursuing this or any other issue with you since you are convinced of your infallibility.
This is merely a discussion so it will go as far as we can take it. This discussion is like a potluck gathering where each participant contribute and each eat what they like from others but not necessary must eat everything that is brought to the table.

Whilst my views agree with Allison's I am not relying on him as my authority. My authority is based on what I have read directly from the CPR.

Allison did not equate the thing-in-itself with 'illusion' directly but some others did.

I suggest you explore more if you have the intent and time.

There are many types of illusion and the issue here is that of a transcendental illusion.

The common illusions are those of the senses, especially sight,, bent stick in water, etc..
What we do not encounter often are those of feel, taste, hearing, smells.
Note illusions in Music,
https://dianadeutsch.bandcamp.com/album ... -paradoxes

When we shift perspectives, the prior perspective could be illusory.
You think the marble you feel is solid? In another perspective that marble is 99.9999 empty space of particles travelling at speed of light to give you an illusion of a feel of hardness and solidness.

Next we have illusion of thoughts and common reason.
Illusion in common logic are exposed as fallacies.

But there are also illusions in transcendental logic which is not very obvious and need very serious reflection to understand.
The transcendental ideas are transcendental illusion arising from transcendental logic which is thought based [not senses like empirical illusion].
The issue is when the majority take this supposedly transcendental illusions as an objectively real thing empirically [e.g. the most real God] and this end up with terrible evils and violence which can be a very serious threat to humanity.

Whilst you may not have taken such transcendental illusions empirically, you are taking them as 'something' somewhere in mind and you just cannot understand how these illusions are illusory in nature as Kant has claimed.

My view of such transcendental illusions is critical to deal with the following;

1. the threat arising the ultimate source of all evils related to this;
Image

2. An effective Framework and System of Morality & Ethics to leverage Perpetual Peace.

So my views are not based on some instant evil impulse but for the sake of the well being of humanity in the long run.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Fooloso4
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Heidegger: All Prior Western Views of Being Are Wrong!

Post by Fooloso4 »

Spectrum:
Allison did not equate the thing-in-itself with 'illusion' directly but some others did.

I suggest you explore more if you have the intent and time.
Using your potluck analogy, if you bring a dish and claim it does not contain nuts it is not up to someone else who might have a nut allergy to explore more to find out if that is true or not. If you make a claim then you need to be able to back it up. Who are these others? What exactly did they say and where did they say it?
My view of such transcendental illusions …
What is at issue is not your view of transcendental illusion but Kant’s. On the one hand you import and impose a metaphysics on the text and on the other cannot see past your own anti-theism so cannot distinguish between what you believe and what Kant actually said. You can bring your dish to the “potluck gathering” but whether it is fit to eat depends on the ingredients. If you claim you are following Kant’s recipe but put nuts in it even though the recipe does not call for nuts the dish you serve is suspect and anyone who is going to eat it should be warned that contrary to Kant's recipe it contains nuts.
Spectrum
Posts: 5161
Joined: December 21st, 2010, 1:25 am
Favorite Philosopher: Eclectic -Various

Re: Heidegger: All Prior Western Views of Being Are Wrong!

Post by Spectrum »

Fooloso4 wrote: July 28th, 2018, 10:16 am Spectrum:
Allison did not equate the thing-in-itself with 'illusion' directly but some others did.

I suggest you explore more if you have the intent and time.
Using your potluck analogy, if you bring a dish and claim it does not contain nuts it is not up to someone else who might have a nut allergy to explore more to find out if that is true or not. If you make a claim then you need to be able to back it up. Who are these others? What exactly did they say and where did they say it?
My view of such transcendental illusions …
What is at issue is not your view of transcendental illusion but Kant’s. On the one hand you import and impose a metaphysics on the text and on the other cannot see past your own anti-theism so cannot distinguish between what you believe and what Kant actually said. You can bring your dish to the “potluck gathering” but whether it is fit to eat depends on the ingredients. If you claim you are following Kant’s recipe but put nuts in it even though the recipe does not call for nuts the dish you serve is suspect and anyone who is going to eat it should be warned that contrary to Kant's recipe it contains nuts.
What I had presented is Kant's original recipe.
While Allison did not venture into illusion specifically, some within his camp did.
If you ever dig further you are likely to come across it.
Not-a-theist. Religion is a critical necessity for humanity now, but not the FUTURE.
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021