In Praise of Tattoos

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Sy Borg
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Sy Borg »

I don't mean soporific, just laid back.

The contrast made is with the hysterical over-reactive, chest-beating neurosis of Americans, traits we have inherited, largely via Murdoch's media. This is your issue too, John - you freak out at the drop of a hat. Look at your funny rant above - just because I noticed the tendency for Australians today to foolishly babble like the Yanks. Like them, you don't choose your battles but simply go out there swinging for any touchstone neocon/evangelist issue.

I, for one, value calmness and don't care a jot for the blabbering, ranting histrionics over trivia Australia today, but that's globalisation. We are hardly the only culture to be watered down - that's everywhere. Is it really necessary to behave like thwarted spoiled children at the first sign of aggravation?

Is it okay to not much keen on something or someone without damning them to hell - or is this now considered to be a matter of hypocrisy?
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by LuckyR »

Don't confuse online personae with real life. E-bravado isn't known for in person bravery. There is a reason that e-bullies populate middle school study hall during the day and their parent's homes at night.

Are folks you actually meet in person all that different than before?
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Sy Borg »

LuckyR wrote: June 27th, 2018, 1:21 amAre folks you actually meet in person all that different than before?
Certainly they seem to be older :lol:
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by LuckyR »

Greta wrote: June 27th, 2018, 1:35 am
LuckyR wrote: June 27th, 2018, 1:21 amAre folks you actually meet in person all that different than before?
Certainly they seem to be older :lol:
Funny, I think people stay the same and I'm the one getting older.
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Dachshund »

Greta wrote: June 23rd, 2018, 7:18 pm I see your views as being very American - the divisive thinking and hysterical intensity that the Yanks imported to Oz via popular culture. I miss the laid back, laconic Aussie. Now it's Murdoch-inspired Yank-style divisive hysteria graffiiting all over the media and internet.
Greta you tend to conflate late Western ( and in particular, American) neoliberal - ( i.e. market fundamentalist ) - ideology with traditional (social) Conservatism. I am a political Conservative in the mould of Edmund Burke; Burke would have no respect for the ruthless power-lust, the psychopathic greed and the petty, "grasping" values of a modern-day neoliberal corporate capitalist like Rupert Murdoch and nor do I. Murdoch and his ilk are very destructive, very ugly human beings. They are, in short, men of hate - a pox on the face of Western civilization. The very fact that they exist bears clear witness to the terrible truth that our cherished white/European Western culture - the greatest and most noble culture that humanity has ever produced - is currently in a state of desperate crisis.

What must we do to save it ?

What we must do is return to the great traditions of our past; we must now return to find strength in the two primal roots of of our culture which were: (1) the wisdom of classical GreeK philosophy ( in particular, the works of Plato and Aristotle) and (2) faith in the revealed, supernatural knowledge of sacred Judeo-Christian scripture. We must now return, as that brilliant Conservative teacher, Leo Strauss, exhorted us, (and Burke himself would agree), to these two great foundations of Western civilization: Athens and Jerusalem.

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Dachshund
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Sy Borg »

Dachshund wrote: June 29th, 2018, 12:31 am
Greta wrote: June 23rd, 2018, 7:18 pm I see your views as being very American - the divisive thinking and hysterical intensity that the Yanks imported to Oz via popular culture. I miss the laid back, laconic Aussie. Now it's Murdoch-inspired Yank-style divisive hysteria graffiiting all over the media and internet.
Greta you tend to conflate late Western ( and in particular, American) neoliberal - ( i.e. market fundamentalist ) - ideology with traditional (social) Conservatism. I am a political Conservative in the mould of Edmund Burke; Burke would have no respect for the ruthless power-lust, the psychopathic greed and the petty, "grasping" values of a modern-day neoliberal corporate capitalist like Rupert Murdoch and nor do I. Murdoch and his ilk are very destructive, very ugly human beings. They are, in short, men of hate - a pox on the face of Western civilization. The very fact that they exist bears clear witness to the terrible truth that our cherished white/European Western culture - the greatest and most noble culture that humanity has ever produced - is currently in a state of desperate crisis.

What must we do to save it ?

What we must do is return to the great traditions of our past; we must now return to find strength in the two primal roots of of our culture which were: (1) the wisdom of classical GreeK philosophy ( in particular, the works of Plato and Aristotle) and (2) faith in the revealed, supernatural knowledge of sacred Judeo-Christian scripture. We must now return, as that brilliant Conservative teacher, Leo Strauss, exhorted us, (and Burke himself would agree), to these two great foundations of Western civilization: Athens and Jerusalem.
Interesting. So fans of Breitbart aren't necessarily fans of Fox. I assumed they went together. I agree with you about RM - his continual lowering of standards, monopolising and personal fossil fuel interests have inflicted a lot of entropy on society, to his family's profit.

The "revealed supernatural knowledge" of the Arabs was highly questionable and far from something any sensible modern society would base its ideas on. If a person can connect with a personal God, then that's one thing, but to base laws on ancient superstitions is simply self destructive.
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Steve3007 »

Greta wrote:Interesting. So fans of Breitbart aren't necessarily fans of Fox.
Are you saying that one of those two [dis]information portals is conservative and the other is neo-liberal/libertarian? If so, which is which?

In the US, the coalition in the GOP between the libertarian and conservative instincts, which don't always sit comfortably with each other, has been explicitly acknowledged by people like Steve Bannon. I think it's an interesting subject. I tried to bring it up at a meeting of the philosophy discussion group in the pub a while ago but most of the group didn't accept the idea that there could be any schism between those two political/philosophical/ethical positions. And discussions in pubs tend (in my experience) to have a very different character to discussions here. Not better or worse. Just different.
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Felix »

Hey Dachund, I only have one tattoo, which is a graphic solution of the Riemann hypothesis, which proves I'm stupid, right?
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Burning ghost »

Felix wrote: June 29th, 2018, 5:36 am Hey Dachund, I only have one tattoo, which is a graphic solution of the Riemann hypothesis, which proves I'm stupid, right?
A bit of an extreme course of action to cheat in an exam though ... :wink:
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Dachshund »

Felix wrote:Hey Dachund, I only have one tattoo, which is a graphic solution of the Riemann hypothesis, which proves I'm stupid, right?
Yes, that's right. It was a very foolish thing to do. It brands you as a pretentious, young nit-wit.

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Dachsund
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by LuckyR »

Felix wrote: June 29th, 2018, 5:36 am Hey Dachund, I only have one tattoo, which is a graphic solution of the Riemann hypothesis, which proves I'm stupid, right?
Hhmmm... even a simpleton knows that even the most brilliant can and routinely do things that are 1) not in their best interest, 2) things that they later regret and 3) are out and out mistakes. Thus worst case scenario, even if getting a tat was a huge error (which in today's fashion climate is the opposite of likely), drawing an overarching conclusion from a single data point is something that no one would do in real life. No, it typically only exists nowadays online as fakey bravado for those who reduce complex issues to bumper sticker descriptions/solutions. Ho hum, nothing to see here...
"As usual... it depends."
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Sy Borg
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Sy Borg »

Steve3007 wrote: June 29th, 2018, 5:02 am
Greta wrote:Interesting. So fans of Breitbart aren't necessarily fans of Fox.
Are you saying that one of those two [dis]information portals is conservative and the other is neo-liberal/libertarian? If so, which is which?
Dunno. I thought they were two peas in a pod. Still, there must be a reason why some consume one or the other outlet's frothing nonsense. I suppose one difference is that Fox poses as a mainstream outlet while Breitbart has an unashamed racist agenda, although they ultimately seem to say the same things.
Steve3007 wrote:In the US, the coalition in the GOP between the libertarian and conservative instincts, which don't always sit comfortably with each other, has been explicitly acknowledged by people like Steve Bannon. I think it's an interesting subject. I tried to bring it up at a meeting of the philosophy discussion group in the pub a while ago but most of the group didn't accept the idea that there could be any schism between those two political/philosophical/ethical positions. And discussions in pubs tend (in my experience) to have a very different character to discussions here. Not better or worse. Just different.
That is a different schism - conservatives are opposite to libertarians. Don't forget that common Latin derivation lib- from "liber", meaning "free" (or book ... free your mind, Neo, read books!). So liberals and libertarians both share the general view that individuals should be free rather than controlled by the state. Thus, each would have no judgement of tattoos. However, the Republicans - the GOP - are strong today purely through support of the evangelical Christian movement in the US, and they are of course famous for wanting to micro-manage people's personal lives.

The evangelicals want life in prison for first degree murder for women who have abortions; they want each dying person to suffer enough that they reach out for God (or anything/anyone) in desperation; they want a ban on non-Christian immigration and a closing of mosques; they want teens to be completely controlled to avoid even a hint of sex, drugs and naughty music (beware the tritone!); they want gays sent to conversion therapy or imprisoned; they want women's rights rolled back and for more harsh penalties and policing for drugs and crime.

In other words, they want to return to the mores before the 1960s somewhat woke up half the world's population. That is, indeed, a form of conservatism - to conserve old values. However, what of those seeking to conserve the old, now "traditional" in some circles, values of the 1960s? They too would, strictly speaking, be holding a classic conservative stance - let's not lose this [insert valued concept] to modernity!

So the idea of conservative really only refers to the wish to conserve a culture of a particular time. A true conservative, on the other hand, would be one wanting to conserve more of nature - but they are today considered to be wild and crazy radicals.

Libertarians and liberals are losing badly at the moment, while neoconservatism prospers, as democracy is gradually being wound back around the world, as skewed media ownership and social media manipulation increasingly convinces people that democracy is an inefficient, dirty business. So people lean towards the idea of a strong leader (generally male, physically large with deep voice) with a clear vision of what the country needs, and for that strongman to act decisively and without concern or doubt.
With each passing year my awe for Orwell's and Huxley's genius grows a little more.
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Dachshund »

Greta wrote: June 29th, 2018, 7:07 pm So liberals and libertarians both share the general view that individuals should be free rather than controlled by the state.
I'm going tell you the truth of the matter, Greta. You will not like it, you will not like it at all but that's "tough-titty" as far as I am concerned; its high time someone knocked some sense into your thick skull.

The truth is that the great, ancient philosophers of classical Greek antiquity, Plato and Aristotle, for example, were absolutely correct in denying that there is any kind of natural right to liberty. There is no such right, there never been- there never will be. The fact is that human beings are born neither free nor equal. The natural human condition is not one of freedom, but of subordination ( and I am more than happy to show you how you can confirm this for yourself if you are interested, Greta, though I would have to do so in a separate post). The ancients were also correct when they argued that there is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule over the inferior - the master over the slave, the husband over the wife and the wise few over the vulgar many. As to the pursuit of happiness, what indeed could "oi polloi" do with happiness except drink, gamble and fornicate ?!

The 1960s was hailed as the decade that ushered in the liberal revolution and its achievements - the age of civil rights for black Americans, and greater freedom and equality for women and so forth. But it seems in retrospect that the new found freedoms of the 1960s were in fact the fruits of enlightened progress, but rather, the roots of profound evil. This is because freedom is a precious treasure that is rapidly lost if not used wisely. And when the pearls of freedom are cast - as they were in the 1960s - before the the great unwashed swinish mob, they are swiftly trampled under hoof and what was the precious quality of liberty is crushed and degenerates into vulgar licentiousness, and such licentiousness is the eternal harbinger of rapid social decay - divorce, family breakdown, a crisis of domestic violence, widespread antisocial delinquency, crime, disrespect for the rule of law, rampant drug abuse and a soaring prevalence mental illness in chronic anxiety and adjustment disorders, severe clinical depression, etc., the legitimisation of psychiatric paraphilias like homosexuality, a bloated welfare State bureaucracy, transgenderism and other destructive sexual perversions, the rise of an industrial - scale abortion industry, the triumph of moral relativism, positivism and an alienating worldview of disvalued scientism, the pervasive "death- stench" of nihilism and an epidemic of youth and adult suicide, the insane march of radical egalitarian gender feminism that continues to unravel and corrupt the core fabric of decent, civilised society, the disastrous failure of multiculturalism and the swamping of traditional white/European Western societies with mass immigration from 3rd world and non-christian cultures, the indolence and mindless sensual hedonism breed by the creature comforts of mass consumerism and so on and on and on...

Such is the tragic, bitter harvest of modern liberalism. It is any wonder the late West is crying out today out for strong, disciplined leadership, for moral clarity and a swift return to traditional Conservative values and mores ??!!

Regards

Dachshund
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by Dachshund »

NB: paragraph 3 above should read: ... "were NOT the fruits of enlightened progress"...
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Re: In Praise of Tattoos

Post by ThomasHobbes »

Dachshund wrote: June 30th, 2018, 4:52 am
Greta wrote: June 29th, 2018, 7:07 pm So liberals and libertarians both share the general view that individuals should be free rather than controlled by the state.
I'm going tell you the truth of the matter, Greta. You will not like it, you will not like it at all but that's "tough-titty" as far as I am concerned; its high time someone knocked some sense into your thick skull.

The truth is that the great, ancient philosophers of classical Greek antiquity, Plato and Aristotle, for example, were absolutely correct in denying that there is any kind of natural right to liberty. There is no such right, there never been- there never will be.
This is not remotely relevant.
Rights are established by human society.
The fact is that human beings are born neither free nor equal.
Wrong. Society provides that a child may be born with equality under the law. This can be transgressed by arseholes, but that does not change the fact of the legality of morally defined laws.
The natural human condition is not one of freedom, but of subordination ( and I am more than happy to show you how you can confirm this for yourself if you are interested, Greta, though I would have to do so in a separate post).
If natural rights do not exist, then neither can 'natural' subordination.
The ancients were also correct when they argued that there is only one natural right - the right of the superior to rule over the inferior - the master over the slave, the husband over the wife and the wise few over the vulgar many.
You have just shot yourself in the foot. Either there are natural rights or there are none. You don't get to pick and choose.
Fact is that you are a powerless ranting fool who has no power over anyone , not even yourself. You just sit there in front of your computer wanking over your Hitler poster and think you are superior.

As to the pursuit of happiness, what indeed could "oi polloi" do with happiness except drink, gamble and fornicate ?!
I doubt you are capable of even that.

The 1960s was hailed as the decade that ushered in the liberal revolution and its achievements - the age of civil rights for black Americans, and greater freedom and equality for women and so forth. But it seems in retrospect that the new found freedoms of the 1960s were in fact the fruits of enlightened progress, but rather, the roots of profound evil. This is because freedom is a precious treasure that is rapidly lost if not used wisely. And when the pearls of freedom are cast - as they were in the 1960s - before the the great unwashed swinish mob, they are swiftly trampled under hoof and what was the precious quality of liberty is crushed and degenerates into vulgar licentiousness, and such licentiousness is the eternal harbinger of rapid social decay - divorce, family breakdown, a crisis of domestic violence, widespread antisocial delinquency, crime, disrespect for the rule of law, rampant drug abuse and a soaring prevalence mental illness in chronic anxiety and adjustment disorders, severe clinical depression, etc., the legitimisation of psychiatric paraphilias like homosexuality, a bloated welfare State bureaucracy, transgenderism and other destructive sexual perversions, the rise of an industrial - scale abortion industry, the triumph of moral relativism, positivism and an alienating worldview of disvalued scientism, the pervasive "death- stench" of nihilism and an epidemic of youth and adult suicide, the insane march of radical egalitarian gender feminism that continues to unravel and corrupt the core fabric of decent, civilised society, the disastrous failure of multiculturalism and the swamping of traditional white/European Western societies with mass immigration from 3rd world and non-christian cultures, the indolence and mindless sensual hedonism breed by the creature comforts of mass consumerism and so on and on and on...
More empty ranting.
If you don't like it, tough ****.
No one os interested in your fascist state. You'll just have to continue to oppress your own mind.

Such is the tragic, bitter harvest of modern liberalism. It is any wonder the late West is crying out today out for strong, disciplined leadership, for moral clarity and a swift return to traditional Conservative values and mores ??!!
Seig hail mein fuher!

Regards

Dachshund
Your "bitter harvest"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WCNyV9zcd8
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