Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

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Eduk
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Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Eduk »

I wasn't thinking in those terms. Perhaps the search for truths would be a better way to put it. Either way it seems like a circular process where you use truth to achieve goals and truth to set goals.
Unknown means unknown.
Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Eduk wrote: August 5th, 2018, 2:18 pm I wasn't thinking in those terms. Perhaps the search for truths would be a better way to put it. Either way it seems like a circular process where you use truth to achieve goals and truth to set goals.
OK. I'm still curious. What 'truths' ?

And how do you use whatever truths you might find so as to set and achieve goals?
Eduk
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Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Eduk »

All of them count. Obviously some are more valuable than others.
Unknown means unknown.
Georgeanna
Posts: 436
Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Eduk wrote: August 5th, 2018, 2:41 pm All of them count. Obviously some are more valuable than others.
Uh huh. Now you're playing games.
What were you saying about people asking questions and not receiving replies ?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=15734
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Eduk »

This 'conversation' is a good example of goals and truths and exactly why I questioned the 'value' of the forum.
Unknown means unknown.
Georgeanna
Posts: 436
Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Eduk wrote: August 5th, 2018, 2:56 pm This 'conversation' is a good example of goals and truths and exactly why I questioned the 'value' of the forum.
Well that's as maybe but you still haven't answered the questions I posed.
There would be value to me in a straight reply.
However, if you can't or won't, then so be it.
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Eduk »

You asked me what truths. I said all of them. What is wrong with that answer exactly? The same for what goals. All of them. As to how the truth can help achieve a goal that one seems so straight forward that I don't know where to start answering it. For example if I wish to cross the road then knowing if cars are coming or not will be useful.
Unknown means unknown.
Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Eduk wrote: August 5th, 2018, 3:11 pm You asked me what truths. I said all of them. What is wrong with that answer exactly? The same for what goals. All of them. As to how the truth can help achieve a goal that one seems so straight forward that I don't know where to start answering it. For example if I wish to cross the road then knowing if cars are coming or not will be useful.
OK. I had thought you were thinking at a deeper level than mere everyday practicalities of not getting run over.

For example:
Setting valuable life goals and achieving them via a discovery of what matters. What you care about.

Then again, physiological and safety needs do come first in Maslow's hierarchy. Do you value that model ?
Eduk
Posts: 2466
Joined: December 8th, 2016, 7:08 am
Favorite Philosopher: Socrates

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Eduk »

Again all truths. I mean looking to see if cars are coming is rarely a philosophical endeavour but then again judging by the way some people walk across roads by deliberately not looking as if to bully the driver of the car with their weakness then even such a banal example can require philosophy.
Unknown means unknown.
Georgeanna
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Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Eduk wrote: August 5th, 2018, 3:42 pm Again all truths. I mean looking to see if cars are coming is rarely a philosophical endeavour but then again judging by the way some people walk across roads by deliberately not looking as if to bully the driver of the car with their weakness then even such a banal example can require philosophy.
:)
To kill or not to kill.
Fooloso4
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Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Eduk:
Thinking about it. Perhaps philosophy is more like art. Much in the same way that one person can read Lord of the Rings and get a lot out of the experience and another can read the same book and be left cold (and neither person is wrong). But that would mean philosophy isn't the search for truth. Although I only value philosophy which is.
There are a few themes here I would like to comment on. I will try to keep this short, and so, there is a great deal to be filled in.

I’ll start with reading since it was touched on above. There are two issues: first, what we get out of what we read can depend on what we put into it. The more we work with a text the more we may discover, but this, of course, depends on the text.

Nietzsche said:
Of all that is written, I love only what a person hath written with his blood. Write with blood, and thou wilt find that blood is spirit.
It is no easy task to understand unfamiliar blood; I hate the reading idlers.
He who knoweth the reader, doeth nothing more for the reader. Another century of readers—and spirit itself will stink. (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, "Reading and Writing")
Wittgenstein said:
Anything your reader can do for himself leave to him (Culture and Value, 77)
I do not take either of these statements as advice on how to write. We have not earned the right to be so demanding of our readers. It points instead to what is demanded of us if we are to read the philosophers.

The second issue is the matter of taste or temperament. We may think that this, being subjective, is outside the realm of philosophy. Here again both Nietzsche and Wittgenstein have something to say:

Nietzsche:
And ye tell me, friends, that there is to be no dispute about taste and tasting? But all life is a dispute about taste and tasting!
Taste: that is weight at the same time, and scales and weigher; and alas for every living thing that would live without dispute about weight and scales and weigher! (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, “The Sublime Ones”)
And unwillingly only did I ask my way—that was always counter to my taste! Rather did I question and test the ways themselves.
A testing and a questioning hath been all my travelling:—and verily, one must also LEARN to answer such questioning! That, however,—is my taste:
—Neither a good nor a bad taste, but MY taste, of which I have no longer either shame or secrecy.
“This—is now MY way,—where is yours?” Thus did I answer those who asked me “the way.” For THE way—it doth not exist! (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, “The Spirit of Gravity”).
Wittgenstein:
It is sometimes said that a man’s philosophy is a matter of temperament, and there is something to this. A preference for certain similes could be called a matter of temperament and it underlies far more disagreements than you might think (Culture and Value, 20).
If white turns into black some people say “Essentially it is still the same”. And others, if the colour becomes one degree darker, say “It has changed completely”. (Culture and Value, 42)
Another theme is philosophical poesis.

When Plato banished the poets from the Republic he replaces them with a philosophical poetry - images of truth on the cave wall he calls the Forms and an image of the philosopher who ascends the cave and thus the limits of human wisdom.

Wittgenstein said:
I think I summed up my attitude toward philosophy when I said: philosophy ought really to be written only as a poetic composition (Culture and Value, 24).
Finally, I would like to touch on the question of whether all of this means that philosophy so construed is not a search for truth.

Thoreau said:
To affect the quality of the day, that is the highest of arts. Every man is tasked to make his life, even in its details, worthy of the contemplation of his most elevated and critical hour. (Walden, “Where I Lived and What I Lived For”)
Philosophy was for Thoreau, as it was for the ancients, a way of life.

Nietzsche said:
Become Who You Are
He uses the sculptor rather than the painter as the model for the art of self creation. Whereas the painter puts something on a blank canvas the sculptor takes away all that is extraneous and false, leaving only the sculpture itself.

Philosophy as self-knowledge and a way of life, the examined life, is not a search for truth of things in the world but the search for the truth of one’s self. It is for this reason, I think, that Nietzsche emphasizes one’s taste. To follow one’s own taste is to be true to one’s self, but to do so requires learning to wait for one’s self:
Verily, I learned waiting also, and thoroughly so,—but only waiting for myself. (Thus Spoke Zarathustra, “The Spirit of Gravity”).
Georgeanna
Posts: 436
Joined: October 29th, 2017, 1:17 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Georgeanna »

Fooloso4 - I have learned much of value from your professional, substantive and enlightening posts.
I compare my own flighty style of 'conversation' in response to Eduk's 'Thinking about it...' paragraph.

I enjoyed how you tackled this by clearly outlining the themes and issues; supplementing your knowledge and experience with relevant and interesting quotes from Nietzsche, Wittgenstein, Thoreau.

You show how to read, write and address philosophical questions well.

I share the view of 'philosophy as self-knowledge, and a way of life, the examined life...' I see it as a process of exploration and discovery using different means and tools.

Not everyone, myself included, can articulate this, or put this idea into practice.
This then is the value of the forum.
To live and learn.
And with that touch of humour which can lighten the load.
Thank you.
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chewybrian
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Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Florida man

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by chewybrian »

Georgeanna wrote: August 5th, 2018, 12:11 pm Chewybrian:
'... the question of engaging others about philosophy, I do it, but I wait patiently for the right opportunity to arise. One of my favorite questions is: "What is the square root of a million?". I'm not so much searching for the right answer, but watching the person's willingness to try to figure it out. It seems telling to me if they trust their own abilities enough or have a natural curiosity to at least think about it, or if they assume they could not figure it out without even trying. I tend to give up further inquiry with the second set of people.'

You wait patiently - where ?
For the right opportunity to arise - what, where, when, how ?
Leaning on a lamppost at the corner of the street ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ie-YtdRa6g8

How do you choose your subjects for your philosophy test ?

Do you really think that watching someone's reactions to your question about the square root of a million indicates their worthiness to engage in philosophy with you ?
It's certainly not about 'worthiness'. No special abilities are necessary to engage in philosophy; only willingness is needed, though that is rare. I'd like to talk to anyone, anywhere, any time about philosophy, just as a Jehovah's Witness might be always ready to discuss salvation. And, I'm just about as welcome as the Jehovah's Witness in most cases. I know I'll come off as a weirdo if I just jam philosophy into the conversation. I would not even mind being seen as odd, if I did not think that would discourage further conversation.

Those questions are devices to judge someone's interest without coming right out with it. If they show interest in philosophy as a novelty, then they might be interested in discussing it seriously. I think you are usually best served to leave philosophy out of the discussion, but if the conversation drifts close enough, I'll throw out questions like those I mentioned to see if I might find someone receptive to further discussions.

Actually, I think we all have an existential crisis going on, though it's usually under the surface. Absurdity is probably evident to everyone, but most people would rather avoid than face it. So, they come up with various addictions or false emergencies or purposes to focus on in place of looking squarely at reality. A philosopher, to them, is a lot like a reformed smoker must seem to someone who is still smoking. They don't want the advice or information, even if deep down they might think they need it. The process of facing reality seems too much for them, as the pain of quitting smoking, even if they might see a light at the other end of the tunnel, but especially if they don't see a light. If you don't think the Jehovah's Witnesses are on to anything, then you really don't want to have that discussion with them. Similarly, many people don't think the philosopher is on to anything useful, either.
"If determinism holds, then past events have conspired to cause me to hold this view--it is out of my control. Either I am right about free will, or it is not my fault that I am wrong."
Fooloso4
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Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Georgeanna:
Thank you.
I am available for children’s parties, bar/bat mitzvahs, and nursing home appearances. Ask for the Philosophy Discussion Forums discount.
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Trinity Stooge
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Re: Do you take your philosophy out into the world?

Post by Trinity Stooge »

Hi Chewy,

Try this one next time: "One plus one equals two of which?"
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