Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Use this philosophy forum to discuss and debate general philosophy topics that don't fit into one of the other categories.

This forum is NOT for factual, informational or scientific questions about philosophy (e.g. "What year was Socrates born?"). Those kind of questions can be asked in the off-topic section.
Post Reply
Fooloso4
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Coincidentally, when I finished the post above I started reading an essay about Habermas and Derrida. The author, Richard J. Bernstein, begins by discussing “their flesh and blood experiences” as opposed to a disinterested analysis of their disembodied texts. Briefly, for Habermas it the experience at the age of 15 or 16 of a “the first rupture, which still gapes” of being struck by the ghastliness of what had happened Nuremberg and inhumanity of those were arguing over procedural questions of the trial. This, he said, led to his lifelong investigation into the pathologies of modernity. For Derrida it was the experience of the Algerian war as a child and the feeling that the world was about to end.

LuckyR:
Hence why I used the word "many", instead of "all" or "most".

your circumstances probably force you to consider the Big Questions much more than a professional philosopher does/did
In any case, my comment was aimed at what the perception of the professional philosopher might be of anyone reading this thread, not to take issue with what you said.
Platos stepchild
Posts: 545
Joined: July 19th, 2014, 9:58 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Platos stepchild »

Does pain ennoble us? When you're suffering intense intermittent pain, you try and brace yourself against it's onslaught. It's no good, though. As David Hume said: "The most lively thought is still inferior to the dullest sensation". No anticipation of pain can equal it's intensity. And when that intensity comes, you're thrown completely off balance. I'm not sure just how ennobling that is.

And yet, pain anchors us in-the-moment in a way no pleasure is capable of. Pleasure diffuses the mind and the senses. On the other hand, pain has a laser-focus which cuts through our pretentiousness. Maybe that's what nobility's all about. The thing is, though, the animal-part of me runs from pain while my human nature's too cowardly to embrace it's possibilities.

I hide behind the anodyne affects of my medicine. I often fantasize about stoically facing my pain; but, any pain which is capable of rattling my bowels is way too scary for any paper-stoicism. I draw a distinction between pain and suffering: pain is a purely animal-response; whereas, suffering is the noble acceptance and endurance of pain. It's the sublimation of the "animal" to the "human".

But, if suffering is virtuous, then I've proved to be a venal and cowardly man. Why can't my better angels be as virtuous as I need them to be? I'm clearly more animal than human, even though I wear the face of a civilized man. Is everyone as shallow and pretentious as I am; or, is it just me? This conundrum of mine has caused me as much pain as my organic ailments. Thus sayeth the philosopher in me.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by LuckyR »

Platos stepchild wrote:Does pain ennoble us? When you're suffering intense intermittent pain, you try and brace yourself against it's onslaught. It's no good, though. As David Hume said: "The most lively thought is still inferior to the dullest sensation". No anticipation of pain can equal it's intensity. And when that intensity comes, you're thrown completely off balance. I'm not sure just how ennobling that is.

And yet, pain anchors us in-the-moment in a way no pleasure is capable of. Pleasure diffuses the mind and the senses. On the other hand, pain has a laser-focus which cuts through our pretentiousness. Maybe that's what nobility's all about. The thing is, though, the animal-part of me runs from pain while my human nature's too cowardly to embrace it's possibilities.

I hide
behind the anodyne affects of my medicine. I often fantasize about stoically facing my pain; but, any pain which is capable of rattling my bowels is way too scary for any paper-stoicism. I draw a distinction between pain and suffering: pain is a purely animal-response; whereas, suffering is the noble acceptance and endurance of pain. It's the sublimation of the "animal" to the "human".

But, if suffering is virtuous, then I've proved to be a venal and cowardly man. Why can't my better angels be as virtuous as I need them to be? I'm clearly more animal than human, even though I wear the face of a civilized man. Is everyone as shallow and pretentious as I am; or, is it just me? This conundrum of mine has caused me as much pain as my organic ailments. Thus sayeth the philosopher in me.
These sorts of things are why I addressed your previous post in the first place. You are being way, way too rough on yourself. Pain just is. But you are having chronic pain (as opposed to acute pain). Chronic pain is very different from pain alone (I know you know this already). Chronic pain isn't about pain alone, it is about mood alteration, depression if you will. Dealing with pain is one thing, pondering: "Why me?", Why can't I play with my daughter?" debating the fairness of it all. That is a much more complicated issue than a 10 point scale of discomfort.

Dealing with these existential questions is what makes lots of folks dealing with chronic pain review philosophical issues. They aren't more "noble", their circumstances forces these ideas into their consciousness.

Again, good luck to you.
"As usual... it depends."
Fooloso4
Posts: 3601
Joined: February 28th, 2014, 4:50 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Fooloso4 »

Platos stepchild, I agree with LuckyR. I do not find you shallow and pretentious. Quite the opposite. I sense a deep source from which you draw. I do no think that suffering is virtuous and do not believe that medication to relieve pain is hiding or cowardly. If you find living with medication easier to endure than the pain then you should not increase you suffering by belittling yourself for taking pain medication.

It may be of little solace but we are listening and moved by your plight and your elegant philosophical reflections.
Platos stepchild
Posts: 545
Joined: July 19th, 2014, 9:58 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Platos stepchild »

I want to take the throbbing incidence of anticipated pain and let it fuel my philosophical insights. Nothing is more visceral than pain; it's more primal than even hunger or sex. I've been unable to hotwire the experience, though. Just to set things straight, I don't wonder "why me?". There is no "why" to wonder about. I just want to create some meaning to my pain, something to justify it.

I believe in what Jean-Paul Sartre called "good faith". And, I've been searching, in good faith for an elusive meaning to suffering. The flip-side, though is what Sartre called "bad faith". Is my need to understand what's happening to me pressuring me into adopting some false value, by which I could then understand my pain? Maybe, in spite of my vehement disavowal, I'm still wondering, "why me?".

I suffer from intense neuropathy. But, part of my pain comes from phantom limb syndrome. My brain is insisting there's more to my body than there actually is. What if the same impulses are insisting there's some meaning to all this which actually isn't there, which in fact can never "be there"? Maybe the "hot wiring" is deeper than I can reach, and is misfiring in some fundamental way.

What if we're doomed to believe that meaning exists, or at least can be created by brute force? The impulses of my brain insist there's a limb which doesn't exist. I have to at least entertain the possibility that my brain's impulses are also insisting there's meaning which doesn't exist. If the pain I'm suffering from "just is", then the same is true of everything else I've experienced.

The naked possibility that suffering exists without a substratum of meaning is both startling and demeaning. It tenses my body in much the same way the pain does. Whatever happiness I've snatched from life would likewise have no "substratum". That reduces my happiness, as well as any memories of it to some beastial realm where "meaning" lies in cascades of synaptic impulses, firing with blind indifference. Human dignity is therefore farcical. Thus saith the philosopher in me.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by LuckyR »

Platos stepchild wrote:I want to take the throbbing incidence of anticipated pain and let it fuel my philosophical insights. Nothing is more visceral than pain; it's more primal than even hunger or sex. I've been unable to hotwire the experience, though. Just to set things straight, I don't wonder "why me?". There is no "why" to wonder about. I just want to create some meaning to my pain, something to justify it.

I believe in what Jean-Paul Sartre called "good faith". And, I've been searching, in good faith for an elusive meaning to suffering. The flip-side, though is what Sartre called "bad faith". Is my need to understand what's happening to me pressuring me into adopting some false value, by which I could then understand my pain? Maybe, in spite of my vehement disavowal, I'm still wondering, "why me?".

I suffer from intense neuropathy. But, part of my pain comes from phantom limb syndrome. My brain is insisting there's more to my body than there actually is. What if the same impulses are insisting there's some meaning to all this which actually isn't there, which in fact can never "be there"? Maybe the "hot wiring" is deeper than I can reach, and is misfiring in some fundamental way.

What if we're doomed to believe that meaning exists, or at least can be created by brute force? The impulses of my brain insist there's a limb which doesn't exist. I have to at least entertain the possibility that my brain's impulses are also insisting there's meaning which doesn't exist. If the pain I'm suffering from "just is", then the same is true of everything else I've experienced.

The naked possibility that suffering exists without a substratum of meaning is both startling and demeaning. It tenses my body in much the same way the pain does. Whatever happiness I've snatched from life would likewise have no "substratum". That reduces my happiness, as well as any memories of it to some beastial realm where "meaning" lies in cascades of synaptic impulses, firing with blind indifference. Human dignity is therefore farcical. Thus saith the philosopher in me.
Considering these issues is exactly what I was referring to initially. Why wouldn't anyone in your position not consider those topics among others?
"As usual... it depends."
RodCameron
Posts: 6
Joined: October 26th, 2016, 3:11 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by RodCameron »

Ultimately, in the historical, time-honoured sense, a philosopher is an original thinker. Those persons who exemplify philosophy are original thinkers. The rest are thinkers, not philosophers.

In regards to love of philosophy, those persons are philosophologists: followers of certain schools or perhaps the lot.

In my estimation, “philosopher” is the highest honour that can be bestowed on a Westerner. Consequently I prefer “philosopher” to be descriptive of great achievement in philosophy.

-- Updated October 28th, 2016, 7:21 am to add the following --

I should add that, while you may private consider yourself a philosopher, in the "original thinker" context that I have stipulated, society does the the recognising, hence the status is not yours to choose and the question is redundant.
Platos stepchild
Posts: 545
Joined: July 19th, 2014, 9:58 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Platos stepchild »

I've tired of shoveling s h i t. Disregard everything I've said. I no longer want to be in this conversation. So, F-u-c-k me, again and again, and again!!!

-- Updated October 31st, 2016, 7:59 pm to add the following --
Plato's stepchild wrote:I've tired of shoveling s h i t. Disregard everything I've said. I no longer want to be in this conversation. So, F-u-c-k me, again and again, and again!!!
This vitriol represents an unpleasant memory, which ironically is why I'm compelled to philosophize.
User avatar
LuckyR
Moderator
Posts: 7932
Joined: January 18th, 2015, 1:16 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by LuckyR »

Platos stepchild wrote:I've tired of shoveling s h i t. Disregard everything I've said. I no longer want to be in this conversation. So, F-u-c-k me, again and again, and again!!!

-- Updated October 31st, 2016, 7:59 pm to add the following --
Plato's stepchild wrote:I've tired of shoveling s h i t. Disregard everything I've said. I no longer want to be in this conversation. So, F-u-c-k me, again and again, and again!!!
This vitriol represents an unpleasant memory, which ironically is why I'm compelled to philosophize.
I get it, brother.
"As usual... it depends."
Hiroshi Satow
Posts: 13
Joined: March 5th, 2015, 7:38 am
Favorite Philosopher: Laozi
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Hiroshi Satow »

I call myself 'an amateur philosopher.' It works, I think. I'm not a professional, nor have I written a book or an essay. Maybe I'm not a good reader either. But I do think a lot. On those that have been discussed for thousands of years by a variety of philosophers.
User avatar
Godisnolongerneeded
New Trial Member
Posts: 6
Joined: November 30th, 2016, 5:52 pm

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Godisnolongerneeded »

To be completely honest I don't consider myself a philosopher more of a complainer and a grumbler disheartened and dissatisfied with Humanity. I have some strong beliefs I find myself angry when I use phrases like Jesus Christ or God Almighty as I have no belief in the former, but I have been socially program with these things as a child and they seem to be stuck within my vocabulary catchphrases completely meaningless. But according to most of the post I've read I'm a philosopher of one kind or another I'm certainly not a highly educated person although I have a high IQ I just found education unsuitable but when I find something of interest I do research in to it preferably in paper form or hard copy form rather than electronic form but I am enjoying this forum.
User avatar
Reddit
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: January 1st, 2017, 11:06 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Reddit »

I don't consider it an important distinction, but yes. Philosophizing just pondering about things. So if you occasionally ponder about something, then you are in the philosopher club. But again, who would consider that any kind of meaningful badge?
Mortalsfool
Posts: 105
Joined: April 2nd, 2008, 3:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Brodnax, Va. 23920
Contact:

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Mortalsfool »

Reddit wrote:I don't consider it an important distinction, but yes. Philosophizing just pondering about things. So if you occasionally ponder about something, then you are in the philosopher club. But again, who would consider that any kind of meaningful badge?
From what I observe of life around me, I have to ask what I consider a reasonable question; What percentage of the people you've met, have ever opened their minds to 'thoughts' that require the 'thinker' to rise above that which is commonly shared by the masses? From my own rather broad experience, I conclude it is an embarrassing small percentage; hence, we seek pretty much alone.

Just wondering
jack
Agnostic with a great deal of faith
User avatar
Reddit
New Trial Member
Posts: 5
Joined: January 1st, 2017, 11:06 am

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Reddit »

Mortalsfool wrote: From what I observe of life around me, I have to ask what I consider a reasonable question; What percentage of the people you've met, have ever opened their minds to 'thoughts' that require the 'thinker' to rise above that which is commonly shared by the masses? From my own rather broad experience, I conclude it is an embarrassing small percentage; hence, we seek pretty much alone.
When you listen to people after they've heard an idea that is ugly to them, you will often see philosophical thought. With any concept that's been forced into their head, if they dislike it, or it hurts them, it will spur philosophizing almost naturally, like some defense mechanism.

Very few people will find each and every idea they come across digestible. And few people will find every idea easy to understand. Both of these situations make people think.
Mortalsfool
Posts: 105
Joined: April 2nd, 2008, 3:16 pm
Favorite Philosopher: Epictetus
Location: Brodnax, Va. 23920
Contact:

Re: Do you consider yourself a philosopher?

Post by Mortalsfool »

Reddit wrote:
Mortalsfool wrote: From what I observe of life around me, I have to ask what I consider a reasonable question; What percentage of the people you've met, have ever opened their minds to 'thoughts' that require the 'thinker' to rise above that which is commonly shared by the masses? From my own rather broad experience, I conclude it is an embarrassing small percentage; hence, we seek pretty much alone.
When you listen to people after they've heard an idea that is ugly to them, you will often see philosophical thought. With any concept that's been forced into their head, if they dislike it, or it hurts them, it will spur philosophizing almost naturally, like some defense mechanism.

Very few people will find each and every idea they come across digestible. And few people will find every idea easy to understand. Both of these situations make people think.
I have to ask you, because I think otherwise, where are those that are confronting philosophical thought because of ideas 'forced into their head? The masses have more interest in titillating servings of the Kardashians, rather than spending droll time necessary for considering serious problems, and these are indeed 'ugly' and demand thought; like, global warming, starvation, warmongers, gun haters, **** political correctness, and all the other dailynews. The masses can never be accused of 'thinking'; either by force, or invitation.
Agnostic with a great deal of faith
Post Reply

Return to “General Philosophy”

2023/2024 Philosophy Books of the Month

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise

Entanglement - Quantum and Otherwise
by John K Danenbarger
January 2023

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul

Mark Victor Hansen, Relentless: Wisdom Behind the Incomparable Chicken Soup for the Soul
by Mitzi Perdue
February 2023

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness

Rediscovering the Wisdom of Human Nature: How Civilization Destroys Happiness
by Chet Shupe
March 2023

The Unfakeable Code®

The Unfakeable Code®
by Tony Jeton Selimi
April 2023

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are

The Book: On the Taboo Against Knowing Who You Are
by Alan Watts
May 2023

Killing Abel

Killing Abel
by Michael Tieman
June 2023

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead

Reconfigurement: Reconfiguring Your Life at Any Stage and Planning Ahead
by E. Alan Fleischauer
July 2023

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough

First Survivor: The Impossible Childhood Cancer Breakthrough
by Mark Unger
August 2023

Predictably Irrational

Predictably Irrational
by Dan Ariely
September 2023

Artwords

Artwords
by Beatriz M. Robles
November 2023

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope

Fireproof Happiness: Extinguishing Anxiety & Igniting Hope
by Dr. Randy Ross
December 2023

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes

Beyond the Golden Door: Seeing the American Dream Through an Immigrant's Eyes
by Ali Master
February 2024

2022 Philosophy Books of the Month

Emotional Intelligence At Work

Emotional Intelligence At Work
by Richard M Contino & Penelope J Holt
January 2022

Free Will, Do You Have It?

Free Will, Do You Have It?
by Albertus Kral
February 2022

My Enemy in Vietnam

My Enemy in Vietnam
by Billy Springer
March 2022

2X2 on the Ark

2X2 on the Ark
by Mary J Giuffra, PhD
April 2022

The Maestro Monologue

The Maestro Monologue
by Rob White
May 2022

What Makes America Great

What Makes America Great
by Bob Dowell
June 2022

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!

The Truth Is Beyond Belief!
by Jerry Durr
July 2022

Living in Color

Living in Color
by Mike Murphy
August 2022 (tentative)

The Not So Great American Novel

The Not So Great American Novel
by James E Doucette
September 2022

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches

Mary Jane Whiteley Coggeshall, Hicksite Quaker, Iowa/National Suffragette And Her Speeches
by John N. (Jake) Ferris
October 2022

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All

In It Together: The Beautiful Struggle Uniting Us All
by Eckhart Aurelius Hughes
November 2022

The Smartest Person in the Room: The Root Cause and New Solution for Cybersecurity

The Smartest Person in the Room
by Christian Espinosa
December 2022

2021 Philosophy Books of the Month

The Biblical Clock: The Untold Secrets Linking the Universe and Humanity with God's Plan

The Biblical Clock
by Daniel Friedmann
March 2021

Wilderness Cry: A Scientific and Philosophical Approach to Understanding God and the Universe

Wilderness Cry
by Dr. Hilary L Hunt M.D.
April 2021

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute: Tools To Spark Your Dream And Ignite Your Follow-Through

Fear Not, Dream Big, & Execute
by Jeff Meyer
May 2021

Surviving the Business of Healthcare: Knowledge is Power

Surviving the Business of Healthcare
by Barbara Galutia Regis M.S. PA-C
June 2021

Winning the War on Cancer: The Epic Journey Towards a Natural Cure

Winning the War on Cancer
by Sylvie Beljanski
July 2021

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream

Defining Moments of a Free Man from a Black Stream
by Dr Frank L Douglas
August 2021

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts

If Life Stinks, Get Your Head Outta Your Buts
by Mark L. Wdowiak
September 2021

The Preppers Medical Handbook

The Preppers Medical Handbook
by Dr. William W Forgey M.D.
October 2021

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress: A Practical Guide

Natural Relief for Anxiety and Stress
by Dr. Gustavo Kinrys, MD
November 2021

Dream For Peace: An Ambassador Memoir

Dream For Peace
by Dr. Ghoulem Berrah
December 2021