What's the meaning of life?

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Atreyu
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Atreyu » November 19th, 2017, 6:18 pm

Spectrum wrote:I believe all things adapt to changes [no agency] within whatever the constraints. Whatever the resultant is due to this adaptation.

However humans with self-conscious and a higher rational brain has evolved [inferred by observations] with a continuous 'improvement' module*, i.e. in general humans will strive to improve upon its existing state in relation to those aspects of life which are changeable.

* note the continual improvements in average, the level knowledge, technology, health, wealth, etc. over the last 1,000 years of human existence.
In spite of humans' 'improvement modules', they are not evolving. And this is because evolving is one thing, and trying to evolve is quite another.

In spite of all the improvements in technology, health, wealth, etc, man is not evolving. He's fundamentally the same being that he's been since the Stone Age. In fact, if anything he's slightly devolved - he's become weaker, more dependent, more out-of-tune with nature, and never has its existence been on such a precarious footing as today....

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SimpleGuy
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by SimpleGuy » November 20th, 2017, 4:10 am

Greta wrote:
SimpleGuy wrote:Life is just a breath , if ends your life is over. So simply close your eyes and feel to the inside during your breathing and listen to own sound. If you begin to understand without explanation, the first step for you is taken.
What I get from such exercises is a sense that we are as rooted to the atmosphere as plants are rooted to the ground. We exist in this effective Flatland on the surface of our world, protected by the thin layer of atmosphere through which we swim like fish, and are just as dependent.

I had an equally simple thought yesterday while watching one of those fun documentaries about the dangers of space - neutron stars, gamma ray bursts, etc. What got me thinking was the depiction of the early solar system as essentially a shooting gallery. Basically, the universe started with the ultimate violence and the processes of star formation, supernovae, and the endless collisions have continued ever since. However, over time it has quieted, become less violent. Looking at the human project, we have long hoped to find safety and relief from violence and suffering, and the best answer we have for it is morality. Love, friendship, respect, mercy, kindness, understanding, goodwill, humour, calmness.

The shift towards ever greater calm and peace (accepting that progress is seldom smooth) is the great project of life as far as I can tell thus far.
Thanks Greta for mentioning me. I was just pointing out, that a certain metaphysical value, without understand "could" exist, by practising some kind of meditation. Flatland depends on your geometry and the amount of alcoholic beverages beeing consumed. With a non euclidean normalization, which is then an affine normalization this could look different.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 4:14 am to add the following --
Atreyu wrote:
Spectrum wrote:I believe all things adapt to changes [no agency] within whatever the constraints. Whatever the resultant is due to this adaptation.

However humans with self-conscious and a higher rational brain has evolved [inferred by observations] with a continuous 'improvement' module*, i.e. in general humans will strive to improve upon its existing state in relation to those aspects of life which are changeable.

* note the continual improvements in average, the level knowledge, technology, health, wealth, etc. over the last 1,000 years of human existence.
In spite of humans' 'improvement modules', they are not evolving. And this is because evolving is one thing, and trying to evolve is quite another.

In spite of all the improvements in technology, health, wealth, etc, man is not evolving. He's fundamentally the same being that he's been since the Stone Age. In fact, if anything he's slightly devolved - he's become weaker, more dependent, more out-of-tune with nature, and never has its existence been on such a precarious footing as today....
The problem is , even if they would evolve , in which way could they evolve. Once ever postulated a contradictory constraint everything could be tautological. The biggest nonsense then seems reasonable. This may sound queer, but some extremely old cultures, like the antique aztecs, would have sacrificed each other in rituals for those reasons. A simple evolution due to constraint may not be successfull, until one imposes constraints on the constraints.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 4:29 am to add the following --

For example the aztecs were once famous for having football games to the honour of the winged snake god quetzal xoatl. The competitors came out of every tribe and it was a big honor to compete for the representative of the gods (their emperor). Once one team had lost it should get cannibalized by the whores and the staff of the palace. The winner of those contest was then beheaded for honour as a sacrifice to the winged snake god. Once one realizes that this is one of the famous constraints , who would think that anything reasonable was somehow possible? Although the aztecs had talent in math and arciteqture , one should realize to evolve after constraints could not imply any direction for sense.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 6:56 am to add the following --

For the human species, these times were in the approximate 40.000 years of existence by far more present than any humanistic thinking. The problem is, that technology doesn't mean necessary that we evolve in a humanistic sense. Just think about the soylent green film of charlton heston, where technology is used in a inhumane way to feed the population.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 7:05 am to add the following --

Despite the previously made remark , the aztecs thought about their society as a highly evolved one compared to the surrounding tribes of mesoamerica due to the fact that they didn't use cannibalism for food supply but for religious reasons.

-- Updated November 20th, 2017, 7:36 am to add the following --

If you don't count primeveal behaviour which is stubborn and primitive to the reason of life you should reformulate your question. What's the reason to live in a cultivated technological society?

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OldMan
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Re:

Post by OldMan » December 22nd, 2017, 8:39 pm

Etherealpoet wrote:
March 16th, 2007, 2:42 pm
The meaning of life is simple; it is survival. Everything else is social and secondary to the true meaning. We can discus and ponder and reflect all we want, but in duing this we only pass the time until the inevidible. There is only one true meaning of life, and all life forms on earth, including those that cannot recognize such things, share the same one. I suggest surviving with purpose though.
I prefer to go with Nietzsche's theory about this idea, where he criticizes Darwin's evolution theory for putting will to survive as the central factor for living creatures. He explains very well that what matters much more to living creatures is will to power rather than will to survive.
If all our concern was will to survive then in an (imaginary) society in which a government gives free food and accommodation to all people, there would be no problem. But we can already imagine that people in such a society will loose their motivations and meaning in their life.

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Bahman
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Bahman » December 25th, 2017, 10:08 am

cynicallyinsane wrote:
March 5th, 2007, 11:00 am
What's the meaning of life? What's the purpose?
The purpose of life can be to find the meaning of life. Meaning is a mental phenomena so it should be experienced. I am not sure if we have evolved well enough to have a grasp of meaning.

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nde
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by nde » December 30th, 2017, 9:22 am

Some interesting stuff coming :

http://www.thepurposeofour.life/

some say that they did see a light. I walked TO THE LIGHT and came back

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Belindi » December 31st, 2017, 6:01 am

A note to nde:

The story that you recommend could have been written by a liar or a fantasist.
If the author truly did have this experience , which is possible, his interpretation of his experience is his alone and is not evidence.

Philosophers use doubt as a method to approach truth. You seem to be gullible.

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QuarterMaster69
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by QuarterMaster69 » March 5th, 2018, 12:42 pm

cynicallyinsane wrote:
March 5th, 2007, 11:00 am
What's the meaning of life? What's the purpose?
The meaning of life is only asked by one species: homo sapiens, assuming they have acquired language, are conscious and contemplative. Since meaning is inherent in language and conditioned into us, we assume that because a word has meaning then there should be meaning for what the word represents. It is a mistaken assumption of logic. But, I get what you mean. Meaning can be interpreted and created therefore you are ultimately the writer of your own meaning and purpose of which you can believe.

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Atreyu
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Atreyu » March 5th, 2018, 6:21 pm

QuarterMaster69 wrote:
March 5th, 2018, 12:42 pm
The meaning of life is only asked by one species: homo sapiens, assuming they have acquired language, are conscious and contemplative. Since meaning is inherent in language and conditioned into us, we assume that because a word has meaning then there should be meaning for what the word represents. It is a mistaken assumption of logic. But, I get what you mean. Meaning can be interpreted and created therefore you are ultimately the writer of your own meaning and purpose of which you can believe.
Yes, but the question was asked with the intention of getting some kind of objective answer, even if there isn't one. It's obvious that each of us can have a "meaningful" life as we ourselves define it, but the question is, is there any inherent meaning to our existence?

And the answer is yes, and it is to "evolve", or at least to help other entities "evolve". By "evolve" I mean to fundamentally change oneself for the better, as in acquiring new powers which nature did not give homo sapiens by default...

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Belindi » March 6th, 2018, 5:03 am

Atreyu wrote:
It's obvious that each of us can have a "meaningful" life as we ourselves define it, but the question is, is there any inherent meaning to our existence?

And the answer is yes, and it is to "evolve", or at least to help other entities "evolve". By "evolve" I mean to fundamentally change oneself for the better, as in acquiring new powers which nature did not give homo sapiens by default..
.

Whose meaning are you writing about , Atreyu? Meaning does not exist apart from people who create meaning; so whose meaning are you referring to?

I guess you refer to your meaning. I also guess that your meaning as you state it is a shared meaning. I share your belief as you have written it and I bet that many others do too.

I do however object to any hypothetical implication that the belief , the ethic, which you describe defines human nature or is definitive of all societies.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by 3uGH7D4MLj » March 6th, 2018, 1:35 pm

Belindi wrote:
March 6th, 2018, 5:03 am
Atreyu wrote:
It's obvious that each of us can have a "meaningful" life as we ourselves define it, but the question is, is there any inherent meaning to our existence?

And the answer is yes, and it is to "evolve", or at least to help other entities "evolve". By "evolve" I mean to fundamentally change oneself for the better, as in acquiring new powers which nature did not give homo sapiens by default..
.

Whose meaning are you writing about , Atreyu? Meaning does not exist apart from people who create meaning; so whose meaning are you referring to?

I guess you refer to your meaning. I also guess that your meaning as you state it is a shared meaning. I share your belief as you have written it and I bet that many others do too.

I do however object to any hypothetical implication that the belief , the ethic, which you describe defines human nature or is definitive of all societies.
I agree. I don't see how one can blithely announce "the inherent meaning to our existence." There have been adaptations of all sorts, better and worse, in a blind, Darwinian way, but I can't see the leap to purpose. "To fundamentally change oneself for the better," is a (perhaps worthwhile) project for those who choose it, not a universal meaning of existence.
fair to say

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