What's the meaning of life?

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Rr6
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Rr6 » March 8th, 2017, 7:23 pm

Belindi wrote:
r6--Disorder of the human mind can occur as a failure of human mind to find an order.
Bel---Should I start worrying?
No Belindi, don't worry, be happy. Just like the song, however, it is not my place to tell you what to do. Your choice always.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dont+wo ... 8&oe=utf-8

All is good, except when it is bad. It is bad if a human cannot find any order in their life.

Not finding order in our lives happens to all humans at various times. Some more than others.

Unfortunately our parents do not offer us any kind of warranty when were born or when we leave the nest. :--))

r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

Pelegrin_1
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 8th, 2017, 11:53 pm

Ranvier wrote:Pelegrin
In my mind, your life is meaningful already because it's important to me. That doesn't change the fact that "we" all should strive to find a purpose relevant to all humans (humanity) so that we can all "act" towards achieving that purpose without contradicting what we think, what we say, and what we do.
I don't disagree with what you've said here, but then I'm not sure I can fully agree either. It seems that what you're saying is that if someone isn't striving to find a purpose relevant to all humans, to humanity, then he or she isn't leading a meaningful life. Now Ok, perhaps there's a raw truth in that, but it would seem to condemn the meaning of many people's lives, so-to-speak. Some people, or many people are generally quite limited even in what they can strive to do, again due to the circumstances of their lives. And then, take a very young child, or a baby, who dies young before they had any opportunity to strive for anything, does that then mean that their life, short as it was, had no meaning? In fact, their life may well have had hugely significant meaning for those who loved them.

So yes, you said that my life is meaningful because it's important to you. But then doesn't that also mean that my life has meaning? I go back to trying to establish the simplest and yet most valid meaning of life, which as you said, or someone earlier, is probably too simply just to say to "live", or "live it", as I said it. So yes, there needs to be something more, but then it could be simply to have our life be 'meaningful in a positive way', but I don't think that necessarily needs to be for humanity, though of course generally it would be.

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Ranvier
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Ranvier » March 9th, 2017, 2:41 am

Pelegrin
I don't disagree with your thoughts, I can appreciate your point of view from a philosophical or even psychological perspective as "fulfillment" in describing the "meaning of life". Of course, people have to work to earn money in order to pay bills and purchase goods to sustain life. Some will hold professions that they actually enjoy and become fulfilled as individuals through their accomplishments. Mothers may become fulfilled by giving birth to a new life and sacrifice in love to take care of their child. However, I'm not referring to such subjective "meaning". If for example we knew that there is some kind of imminent extinction level event that would occur within a year, all the things that were previously significant to our lives would become meaningless. Wealth, fame, power...etc would loose value and meaning. The population growth rate would drop drastically. People would begin the search for God or rekindle previously lost faith with predominant thoughts revolving around coming in terms or "acceptance" of one's life. What have we done so far as species? Are we proud of who we are? That's the kind of meaning of life that we should be searching for.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Belindi » March 9th, 2017, 4:38 am

I think Ranvier is right to presume that the original poster's#1 question was intended as moral philosophy: "what ought I to do?"

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 9th, 2017, 8:01 am

Ranvier, I haven't come here at this hour of the morning (when I should be getting ready for work) in order to check what someone may have said on this or whatever topic, but rather to append to my last post. In fact, I woke up with the realization that our discussion had strayed me off from what had been the original center of my own perspection about what the meaning of life should be, in my opinion. And I immediately felt that I needed to bring myself back, in some degree, to that center. Basically, holding life itself as having its own deep meaning I don't believe is a trivial matter. I mean, we only need to look around us to recognize that in so many ways life is in fact undervalued, under appreciated. In fact, often it seems that its our quests for something more that are the root of our undervaluing of life itself. And furthermore, unless we are part of something akin to a Borg Collective, I also don't see why a meaningful human life or a human life with meaning has to be or should necessarily be to strive for some purpose for humanity. Each of us our have own life identity and our own mortal existence, and first and foremost in order to have meaning in our life it should be meaningful for us. Now Yes, it should be meaningful in a positive way, but with the realities of the world as they are, and all the sacrifice of human life that there has been throughout our history as a species, not to say also our destructive and careless habits with the living world around us, I'd be very very content if we'd all just strive to appreciate life itself, strived for meaning in our own lives, and not to have that meaning be significantly negative to others and the world around.

Now, just a brief comment for the moment about your post above... Seems kind of ironic actually that you've said what appears to be quite the opposite of what I've just posted here. :-)

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Rr6
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Rr6 » March 9th, 2017, 9:18 am

Humans apply meaning and purpose to Universe and biological life.

As stated previously, human life has four functions beyond that of other animals;

1} harvest information objectively,

2} sort the information,

3} discover patterns and principles,

4} subjectively apply those patterns and principles in support of the integrity of Universe and the integrity of the ecological environment that supports human life.
Rr6 wrote:There exists only order.
Disorder of the human mind can occur as a failure of human mind to find an order.
Humans discover the order--- cosmic laws/principles and patterns etc----and then apply meaning and purpose.
The universe may be a mystery but is no secret....S Schnieder
r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 9th, 2017, 2:08 pm

Rr6 wrote:Humans apply meaning and purpose to Universe and biological life.

As stated previously, human life has four functions beyond that of other animals;

1} harvest information objectively,

2} sort the information,

3} discover patterns and principles,

4} subjectively apply those patterns and principles in support of the integrity of Universe and the integrity of the ecological environment that supports human life.
I won't argue the point that those are things that humans generally do, although I might question the part about "in support of the integrity of Universe and the integrity of the ecological environment", but I'm not going to specifically focus on that right here. What I want to question though is about the idea of what we generally "do" being directly related to being the "meaning of life" for all the people who "do". Does just doing those things truly give meaning to every human life? And again, each individual has a different degree of life-circumstance capacity to do each of those things. And if one's life is quite limited by his/her circumstances, then does that mean the meaning of their life may also feel quite limited as well?

I think that what we do or are capable of doing, within our personal circumstances, can be quite different from what each one of us "takes from what we do". I think it's what we take, let's say "satisfaction", for lack of a better word at this moment, from what we do is what gives our life meaning.

My focus though is still on "life" itself, the appreciation of life, making the best of it, especially in a positive way, for ourselves and for the world around us, and therein lies the meaning of life. The more we actually do those things, appreciate life, make the best of it, and do so positively, then the more meaning one's life has. Unfortunately though, we may be striving to advance humanity leading forth, but as long as we depreciate life 'today' we are building humanity's advancement on a false base. Each life today needs to be valued and not have so many lives just used as pawns in the supposed forward advancement of humanity. And I truly think that religions and belief in some savior God does a huge disservice to all of this. Because there's this underlying idea that those who we can't save, those lives that are lost through the cracks or are in some way sacrificed (for the future advancement), all those lives, through all the generations, will someday be rewarded by God's heaven or some afterlife, or whatever. It let's us off the hook by having these beliefs. It serves only to make more palatable the sacrifice, the exploitation, the disregard, etc of many human lives, as long as humanity thinks of itself as still moving forward. But we'll never be truly moving forward until our efforts are truly directed at saving, protecting, and bettering the lives of the most desperate in the world, and just generally not doing things that depreciate the lives of others.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Ranvier » March 9th, 2017, 6:42 pm

Pelegrin, both of your recent posts contain amazing thoughts that wonderfully reveal virtues of your nature. We agree more than you think, almost in everything you have mentioned. I also adore human individuality and I would be wary of any type of socially imposed "hive mind" system. Life (biological living organisms) reveal the inherent meaning of life within the Universe for those who wish to notice. We are in absolute agreement that all human lives should be cherished and nurtured to flourish in their individuality. However, the reality of humanity is a very brief period relative to life on Earth, where human consciousness encounters number of conflicting feelings and thoughts about our reality. Religion is enticing to many people, especially those who are overwhelmed by the ethical dilemmas of everyday life in balancing between the selfishness of ego and the wisdom of logic. We want to live in harmony with others including the less fortunate. This is particularly difficult because we're not created equal, where some are born to wealth and others know nothing but poverty, some are born physically attractive or strong and others are born with impediments and "ugly", some are born with high intellect to learn quickly and others are puzzled by anything other than the celebrity news. All this becomes a mess in the biological survival of the fittest and natural selection, compounded by human unique nature capable of hate, irrational spite, or nepotism. Culminating in the fact that human species doesn't have a natural predator (other than microorganisms causing a disease) to maintain balance, yet we are the only species capable of profoundly impacting not only all life on Earth but also our own ability to survive. One can become a Forest Ranger with limited interaction with his own kind to ponder deep mystery of life but the fact remains that he will also be at the mercy of "faulty wisdom" of the human species.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 9th, 2017, 10:51 pm

Ranvier wrote:Pelegrin, both of your recent posts contain amazing thoughts that wonderfully reveal virtues of your nature. We agree more than you think, almost in everything you have mentioned. I also adore human individuality and I would be wary of any type of socially imposed "hive mind" system. Life (biological living organisms) reveal the inherent meaning of life within the Universe for those who wish to notice. We are in absolute agreement that all human lives should be cherished and nurtured to flourish in their individuality. However, the reality of humanity is a very brief period relative to life on Earth, where human consciousness encounters number of conflicting feelings and thoughts about our reality. Religion is enticing to many people, especially those who are overwhelmed by the ethical dilemmas of everyday life in balancing between the selfishness of ego and the wisdom of logic. We want to live in harmony with others including the less fortunate. This is particularly difficult because we're not created equal, where some are born to wealth and others know nothing but poverty, some are born physically attractive or strong and others are born with impediments and "ugly", some are born with high intellect to learn quickly and others are puzzled by anything other than the celebrity news. All this becomes a mess in the biological survival of the fittest and natural selection, compounded by human unique nature capable of hate, irrational spite, or nepotism. Culminating in the fact that human species doesn't have a natural predator (other than microorganisms causing a disease) to maintain balance, yet we are the only species capable of profoundly impacting not only all life on Earth but also our own ability to survive. One can become a Forest Ranger with limited interaction with his own kind to ponder deep mystery of life but the fact remains that he will also be at the mercy of "faulty wisdom" of the human species.
One specific response and then just a general response...

I didn't mean to suggest anything about individuality but rather the appreciation of each individual life, rather than a primary focus on the lives of the human collective. Put ourselves in the living body and mind of any individual, and would we want our short mortal life not to be appreciated and have the opportunity to live the only existence that he/she has, to experience their life as much as possible, and not to have that experience be made horribly difficult by the actions of others. Once we accept that life is a one-time, brief and sometimes even fleeting experience (human experience), then the idea that many people never really get the opportunity to live their life to any level of real human potential should make us all feel... what a tragedy, what a waste.

But yes, humanity is still a long ways away from truly giving or allowing life the meaning that it should have. Too many lives are depreciated, disregarded, destroyed, terminated, exploited, etc, etc, needlessly or just in the name of some other priority. Why really should anything have more priority than life? Sure, there are many people who have found the meaning of life, or at least some positive meaning for their lives which doesn't denegrate the lives of others, but humanity in general, societies for the most part, still have a long ways to go.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Rr6 » March 10th, 2017, 9:33 am

Pelegrin_1"--I won't argue the point that those are things that humans generally do, although I might question the part about "in support of the integrity of Universe
That part was R.B. Fuller
and the integrity of the ecological environment",
that part was me.
Does just doing those things truly give meaning to every human life? And again, each individual has a different degree of life-circumstance capacity to do each of those things. And if one's life is quite limited by his/her circumstances, then does that mean the meaning of their life may also feel quite limited as well?
You misunderstand comments, as stated. My first sentence addressed meaning of life as that what we ever we choose to apply/associate as meaning or purpose to biological life and Universe.

Those four aspects are just what we do, above and beyond other animals, not the meaning of life, unless individual chooses to associate them with.

Again, if Universe or the ecological environment does not exist, humans will not exist.

r6
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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 10th, 2017, 12:40 pm

Ok Rr6,... Perhaps I'm just too focused on the thread topic, or at least my interpretation of it, and don't always catch sideline commentaries for being what they are. My bad.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Hobbes » March 10th, 2017, 3:50 pm

A long post i wrote some time ago, kind of sums up my views on the subject :




What is the point of life ? It is a question that has haunted humanity since the dawn of civilisation, a question that has spurred many a great thinker to dedicate their lives to try and come up with an appropriate answer. But what if their is not one great meaning to this fascinating series of biological processes we have affectionately named “life” ? What if, despite their huge intellectual capacity and ability to see past the obvious to conjure some mind bending abstract theory about various aspects of the human mind and body, the great philosophers of the past were mistaken on this particular mystery?

Yuanfen. The Moirai.The meaning of life. Fate. All these are simply different wordings of the same belief, namely that a certain life defining purpose which we are supposed to follow was somehow included in our DNA when mankind originated. Whether they invoke some divine being or stick to the natural laws of the physical world,, they all incorporate to some extent the belief that we have no control of our future, no free will, and that we spend our short life living in the illusion of possibility. Even the third one, the idea that life itself has some kind of overarching grand design, some all encompassing purpose imbedded in its very foundations, leaves us with little to no choice as to how we live our lives, should we want to end up happy or fulfilled. This manner of thought can for many people lead to some kind of existential crisis, deriving from their fear that they will never figure out the reason they are alive and are doomed to wander the surface aimlessly until their time expires.

There simply is no reason to believe that life has some specific structure, some kind of purpose, to it. Every single human life history has witnessed throughout the ages has been unique, shaped by the desires and flaws of the individual. To proclaim that the universe has as special plan for humanity is to participate in a kind of anthropocentric view of reality we have not entertained since the church proclaimed the world revolved around us, both literally and figuratively. All our knowledge and experience of the universe up until the present moment leads us to conclude none other than the fact that the cosmos, the endless planes of space and infinite lakes of time that form the past,present and future of our reality, must be cold and impersonal. As I mentioned in my last text, mankind is but a visitor on this celestial body. We came, we saw and after while, we will inevitably be conquered, our life source lost to the cruel thief that is time, and Earth will carry on revolving around the sun, continuing to do so until long after any trace of civilisation has disappeared.

But what of it, I hear you believers of …… cry out ? What does it matter that fate has no empirical evidence to back it up ? Why should we not indulge ourselves into believing we are special, refusing to live in a reality which is supposedly indifferent to our sufferings ? Surely no harm can come of such an innocuous train of thought ? If it were truly such an innocent belief, I would have no qualms about letting it run wild in the minds of more spiritually situated individuals, but as you might have guessed, that isn’t the case. It makes it too easy for people too make excuses for when things go wrong, lets them avoid responsibility for their own failings. Failed to land a place at that university you so desperately wanted to attend ? Oh well, it’s not your fault, it simply wasn't meant to be. Get dumped by your boy/girlfriend ? It’s alright, everything happens for a reason.
While I understand the fact that in harsh times like these we have always had a need for something to sooth the pain, I honestly don’t believe that what is pleasant is always the best thing in times of emotional turmoil. It is as the idiom says : after storm comes sunshine. But if we don’t let ourselves experience storm, numbing the pain by referring to the grand plans of life’s great architect,fate, we are in fact missing out on an oppertunity. There is no life without suffering, no man or woman has ever walked the earth, nor will one ever, that has not experienced misfortune in their time. By accepting small misfortunes on a daily basis, we become weathered by the storm, so to speak, so that when a serious crisis arived, like when a parent passes away, we are better equipped to handle it. However, I realise this text can sound a lot like preaching the impossible, telling all of you to “embrace misfortune” and to “weather the storm and come out victorious at the end”. It’s not supposed to. Off course suffering is ****, if you excuse the language. No one likes it and no one wishes to have more of it, rightly so. But we should avoid hiding from it under a cover of security, and learn to live life to its fullest, the miserable parts

Instead of trying so desperately to come up with a purpose for our time spent on Earth, we should allow ourselves to simply enjoy life, to spend time discovering ourselves and figuring out a meaning not for life itself, but for the unique individual each of us is. Too many people these days spend what little time they have left on this planet chasing money and fame, convinced that the purpose of their existence is to do as has been done by so many before them, to uphold the status quo, and while this may render plenty of people genuinely happy, for most of the population, is does not. We spend 14 years in basic education only to be taught that to be successful and happy we must go to university. Our studies in college then culminate in us becoming employable and we feel as if we can finally catch a breath, yet we are immediately pressured by society to get a stable job as soon as possible and avoid taking any risk whatsoever, so we can work for 40 year and pass the responsibility of upholding tradition on to our sons and daughters. Mind you, there isn’t anything inherently wrong with this kind of life, and if what I just described excites you, then by all means, follow your dream. In the end, though, most of us end up lying on our deathbeds with regrets filling our thoughts, dreaming about things we wished we could have done differently in our lifetime, yet didn’t because when the opportunity for change presented itself, we couldn't bring ourself to believe that our life could receive new purpose so late in its cycle, so we stuck to the future we had envisioned when we were young and inexperienced.

Don’t make the mistake we have seen so many of the previous generation make. Don’t be someone who is alive but never lives. If you have a desire to do something, any interest or talent that keeps you up in the night, dreaming about the future, pursue that dream - hone those talents to perfection. This isn’t about being able to do anything we want, the harsh reality is that everyone is born with flaws that limit what they are realistically able to do achieve in their life. No, this is about doing what you love doing and excel at. There is no reason to settle for mediocrity, no reason to curl up in front of the tv and tell yourself that your dream simply was not meant to be. No one captured the essence of this concept as well as Langston Hughes did, when he wrote : “Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is a broken winged bird that cannot fly”.

So rather than surrendering to our innate desire to find patterns where there are none, to assign explanations of the unexplainable to some divine being we cannot witness, why not simply accept that the beauty of life lies in its randomness, in the fact that the future is still up for grabs. As a friend once told me, it is your imperfections that make you perfect, and life certainly has plenty of imperfections. Keep dreaming, keep trying to impose your own purpose on your life. For if you are able to do this, if you are able to keep going until you have achieved your goal, to rally your spirits in times of hardship and persevere while everyone else falters, you will have achieved something very rare in today’s society, something that will have taken you the closest one can get to anything resembling a meaning of life and perhaps most importantly something that will enable you to smile as death comes to great you like an old friend, with no regrets to weigh you down, anchoring your body to the pains of the mortal realm.
You will, in short, have lived.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Rr6 » March 10th, 2017, 7:33 pm

It is humans access to metaphysical-1, mind/intellect/concepts ergo those four functions that allow human to assign/apply associate a meaning or purpose with biological life and/or our finite, occupied space Universe/God. relatively simple. imho.

meaning,

purpose

function.

r6
Rr6 wrote:Humans apply meaning and purpose to Universe and biological life.
As stated previously, human life has four functions beyond that of other animals;
1} harvest information objectively,
2} sort the information,
3} discover patterns and principles,
4} subjectively apply those patterns and principles in support of the integrity of Universe and the integrity of the ecological environment that supports human life.
Rr6 wrote:There exists only order.
Disorder of the human mind can occur as a failure of human mind to find an order.
Humans discover the order--- cosmic laws/principles and patterns etc----and then apply meaning and purpose.
The universe may be a mystery but is no secret....S Schnieder
r6

-- Updated March 11th, 2017, 10:22 am to add the following --

All Is Good
By R6

Duality unleashes vibrations,
Consciousness mixed on waves,
Fleeting, ebbing, flowing moments,
Of sensorial aberrations of awareness.

Drifting among est animals,
Plants, fungus, algae and bacteria,
Twixt night, day and a breeze,
On the spinning spaceship of Earth.

A fragrance, a humming, and colors of light,
Passion tingles and rides as a buzz,
Busy bodies bloom into ecstasy,
And then molding into a deep sleep.

Needs arise on a calm sea,
Choices, judgements and desire,
Steers the minds motor of thought,
And begs for solutions to life's problems.

The joys of being,
Being well,
Being human,
Being likened to,
A semi-divine God{God-ess-ence}.
Rr6 wrote: No Belindi, don't worry, be happy. Just like the song, however, it is not my place to tell you what to do. Your choice always.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dont+wo ... 8&oe=utf-8
All is good, except when it is bad. It is bad if a human cannot find any order in their life.
Not finding order in our lives happens to all humans at various times. Some more than others.
Unfortunately our parents do not offer us any kind of warranty when were born or when we leave the nest. :--))
r6
"U"niverse > UniVerse > universe > I-verse < you-verse < we-verse < them-verse

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Woodart » March 11th, 2017, 12:23 pm

Ranvier wrote:All recent posts are very astute. However, I want to convey how difficult it is to focus the attention of others to a seemingly obvious problem. Every human action, presumably, should be rational and driven by logic. That's what separates us from other animals that often reflect more logic than humans. If one goes to the kitchen and forgets the reason for going there, one can retrace the steps by asking oneself "why did I go to the kitchen?". There should be a reason for everything we do. We put on our clothes to preserve the modesty, as a fashion statement, or for warmth. We go outside for work or to meet friends, we eat food to sustain our life, we go for a run or exercise because we want to remain healthy and extend our life span. Every action has a purpose, if such action has no purpose then that action is irrational. Repeating over and over an irrational action amounts to insanity. I ask people on this forum and in everyday life, what is the "goal, aim, purpose" of humanity and the best answer I get is "to make this world a better place". Again, I ask what does it mean? What is a better world and why our human actions contradict one another? Someone can do "good" and be punished for it, others can do "evil" and be rewarded for such actions by the society. This world doesn't make sense (it's insane) because it's inconsistent without a "good or bad" but easily perceivable purpose among the human population. The majority of people asked on the street for the human goal have no answer, except for "to live, to enjoy life, or life is meaningless" as individual perception of one's own short and long term goals. The fact that most people are not troubled by this, except for a very few in the past, is a sign of human insanity for thousands of years of history. So we'll continue to grow in numbers like bacteria in a selfishness of "making this world better for oneself", until we reach a point of saturation resulting in a global war or exhaustion of planet's resources to sustain life. But what do I care, I will live no more than a 100 years anyway. If I can't alert a few here on this forum to "human insanity" than there is no purpose to anything anyway and we should embrace the Anarchy system as soon as possible.


The dilemma in life is not to understand the world’s purpose or meaning, but to define your own. Meaning or purpose is a tricky business. Inconsistency and contradiction is part of the way the universe is constructed. Proof of the inconsistency is easily perceived in ourselves. I am not trying to get on a moral high horse here, but we are all hypocrites at times in our lives. I think most people strive to be consistent, but we fall short at times because our vision is clouded by appetite and desires which lead us astray.

When I was a young man I was a yogi and wanted to be a holy man. I drove myself crazy by putting various handcuffs or restraints upon myself in an effort to be “holy”. You can be disciplined and still be plagued by doubt. Consistency is the goal but it is a delicate balance of competing forces in our minds eye. Living is more art than habit.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Pelegrin_1 » March 15th, 2017, 2:56 pm

I just realized a greater purpose to a human life. Strange, because I've been saying it, off and on, all my life whenever circumstances presented. The meaning of a human existence is to live it by the principles you've deemed to be important to live your life by. If you act contrary to those principles, to your own principles, then you are trampling all over any real meaning that your life has. Be true to yourself, but at the same time allow opportunities for yourself to develop so as to be as complete as you can be with respect to who you are and who you can ultimately be. Whenever I have found myself with what a feel to be a real conflict with my principles, I've always ultimately taken the route that doesn't contradict who I am or who I am or have become at that moment in my life. Being hypocritical to myself seems like the most unbearable act.

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