What's the meaning of life?

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Noobe-Noobe
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Re:

Post by Noobe-Noobe » September 19th, 2017, 7:34 pm

Etherealpoet wrote:The meaning of life is simple; it is survival. Everything else is social and secondary to the true meaning. We can discus and ponder and reflect all we want, but in duing this we only pass the time until the inevidible. There is only one true meaning of life, and all life forms on earth, including those that cannot recognize such things, share the same one. I suggest surviving with purpose though.
I agree, at least at this point of my life. I believe that whatever we tell ourselves about the meaning of life, we tell it to have a reason to survive, and we need a reason just because we have evolved too much. We make up religions or theories to convince ourselves that there is a greater cause, but we do that 'cause otherwise we wouldn't survive. Either we'd kill ourselves or go mad.
Sorry if I can't explain very well what I want to say but my English aren't perfect :oops: .

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Fairwinds » September 20th, 2017, 2:39 am

An interesting thought but still believe that complicated explanations are unnecessary. Life happens. Life is beautiful in its natural form. Individual life can be hell in bad circumstances. Concepts of why we re here and the search for a meaning are natural but unnecessary. Enjoy the stunning beauty of the planet and accept that our short life is transitory. Beyond that, the human intelligence is such that concepts and beliefs readily form and they have varying strengths from curious to fanatical. This is so called religion and most have beautiful and benign aims which benefit their believers. We all know about the consequences of extreme beliefs in all societies, and history guides us here.

Life is an accident of birth, an amazing gift. Enjoy it to the full before oblivion return!

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Belindi » September 20th, 2017, 4:53 am

Ranvier wrote:
An individual death is nothing but a dream, only to "wake up" again... Better.
Would you class this claim as hope or as faith?

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Steve3007 » September 20th, 2017, 5:07 am

(Sorry to chip in). I guess such things could be hope, faith or evidence. Or a combination thereof:

We can believe things because we want them to be true - because we think life would be better than if they were not true.

We can believe things because we have faith that they are true - because we have a strong feeling that they are true that we think doesn't require evidence. Perhaps we think it's axiomatic, or self-evident.

Or we can believe things because we think we see evidence that they are true. It fits a pattern in our observations of the world.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Ranvier » September 20th, 2017, 6:25 am

Belindi wrote:Ranvier wrote:
An individual death is nothing but a dream, only to "wake up" again... Better.
Would you class this claim as hope or as faith?
I "believe" Conservation of Energy to be a fact, as well as I have faith in the cause and effect in a heavy body of evidence as evolution of life. Therefore, I would classify that statement as a "fact".

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Tamminen » September 20th, 2017, 7:48 am

Steve3007 wrote:I guess such things could be hope, faith or evidence.
Or pure logic. If death means end of being, there is non-being, which is self-contradictory. The problem is, of course, if the premise is as self-evident as I see it is.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Steve3007 » September 20th, 2017, 7:54 am

Tamminen:

Yes, I think you're right to mention logic. Although, of course, logic only allows us to create proposed truths about the world if they derive from other proposed truths about that world which were arrived at using hope, faith or evidence.

Logic in itself is a system of tautologies - things that are true by definition.

-- Updated Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:59 pm to add the following --
If death means end of being, there is non-being, which is self-contradictory.
If death were defined as "the end of being" then, yes, clearly it would by self-contradictory to claim that there can be "being after death". So I presume a person who proposes that there is "being after death" disagrees with this definition of the word "death".
The problem is, of course, if the premise is as self-evident as I see it is.
To be clear: what premise are you referring to in this sentence?
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Fairwinds » September 20th, 2017, 8:26 am

Reading through these posts, it strikes me forcibly that a simple question, "what is the meaning of life?", or "Why are we here?" Is being answered in a convoluted manner using a huge play on words. Words invented by mankind.

Maybe this is too simplistic, but my take on it is that Life is an amazing gift, the result of an accident of birth, and an unbelievable opportunity to savour all the myriad pleasures on a beautiful blue planet. This gift has no special meaning and the unpalatable truth is that we mean very little and the vast majority of humans will not be missed.

There is no special meaning in my view - we exist on the Earth for a very short spell, and lead our lives in our own way influenced more or less by other beings who both create and destroy. Humans have been described by a French philosopher (name escapes me) as " the scum of the universe" and the longer I live, the more I agree.

For a long time I have lived convinced that each day is special, that external doctrines of religion, politics, and even logic are suspect and that great pleasure can be obtained in the knowledge that life is transitory (that word again) and that the world in its natural state is truly beautiful and breathtaking. There is no need to search for meanings that do not exist.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Tamminen » September 20th, 2017, 8:46 am

Steve3007 wrote:To be clear: what premise are you referring to in this sentence?
The premise is: "If death means end of being, there is non-being."

This is self-contradictory if by "non-being" we mean nothingness. I have noticed that there are not many who see this "axiom" as self-evident, but I do.

-- Updated September 20th, 2017, 9:00 am to add the following --

To be a bit more precise:

Let us have these two sentences:

p: I cease to exist for good.
q: The world ceases to exist, even so that there has never been anything, no world, no me, no others, because also the past disappears.

p->q is true, and I am convinced of its truth. For me it is as self-evident as the Cartesian "I am".
We all know that q is false: the world does not disappear when I die.
Therefore p must also be false, since only a false statement can imply a false statement.
So my death does not mean my non-being, and everyone in our community of subjects can say the same.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Steve3007 » September 20th, 2017, 9:05 am

Tamminen:

OK. You've stated that the sentence: "If death means end of being, there is non-being." is self-contradictory if by "non-being" we mean nothingness.

So I presume the premise that you regard as axiomatic is:

"Non-being does not mean nothingness."

Yes?

-- Updated Wed Sep 20, 2017 2:08 pm to add the following --

I wrote the above before seeing that you'd added more. I'll read the extra bit now.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Tamminen » September 20th, 2017, 9:12 am

See my update.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Steve3007 » September 20th, 2017, 9:18 am

When you say "p>q" I presume you mean that q is an inevitable consequence of p.

I think it's only true if you're using a very specific, subjective definition of the term "the world", which is more accurately described as "my world". If q was this:

"My world ceases to exist, including all of my memories of myself, of others and of the past."

then p and q seem reasonable things to say. But as soons as you say "The world" you're implictly stating your belief in the objective existence of a world that exists independantly of you. So you're begging the question.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Tamminen » September 20th, 2017, 9:51 am

I mean the world. What I am saying is that there can be a world that is independent of my personal existence only if I exist as a universal and eternal subject, i.e. if all of us are manifestations of one and the same subjectivity. I have written more about this in other posts.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Steve3007 » September 20th, 2017, 10:58 am

OK. I'll check out some of your other posts.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it is because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea." - Eric Cantona.

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Re: What's the meaning of life?

Post by Tamminen » September 20th, 2017, 11:05 am

All I am saying depends on one axiom of existence: "If I did not exist, there would be nothing." I keep wondering if anyone can imagine one's nonexistence, truly. Others', yes, but mine? And still there is the world after my death. A paradox that can be resolved only by seeing that my existence is eternal, and so is everybody's.

Is this hope, faith or evidence? I would say it is logic, but only on the condition that the axiom above can be seen as self-evident, which seems to be difficult for most people for some reason. But admittedly it was a remarkable insight for me, too.

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