Can randomness be caused by something?

[Hello]

Hey, when you think about the concept of randomness, how do you think it operates? Like Quantum Physics is said to be random, but where does it come from?

Right now, I have 2 workable concepts of randomness:

1. By nothing

2. By something

My definition of randomness being by something is that that something determines the outcome in which is random. When by nothing, it just poped into existence and nothing determined the result.

There are now two kinds of actions:

1. Agent: Determined by the person/object, who decides on their actions.

The choice all comes down to the actor who did the action. If you believe in randomness by something, then that something is the actor.

2. Non-agent: Not determined by the person/object. A leaf that is blown by the wind is an example. Another example is a person whose heart is pumping. Never did he/she determine whether or not it pumps.

Now, when there is randomness by something, what do you think that something is? Is it conscious? Unconscious? What do you think?

[NameRemoved]

Right now, I have 2 workable concepts of randomness:

1. Caused by absolutely nothing (just came into existence)

2. Caused by something (Like a computer that may randomly choose between A or B. The decision came from the computer)

I am kind of having some difficulty with this second concept.What you think about this?

I have never known of something coming from nothing. so I have difficulty with your first concept.

[Hello]

Well, Izzy, randomness is a mysterious thing if you think about it. So you have no problems with the second idea?

[Belinda]

There is no such thing as physical randomness, as far as one knows. Einstein said that God does not play dice.Perhaps not all physicists agree with Einstein about randomness.

It's possible for a machine or a roulette wheel to generate random effects but these effects are random only because we don't know the causes of the effect.

I think most ordinary, not philosophical, conversations that include the word 'random' imply the latter meaning, although of course few people think carefully about what they mean.

[Ambertider]

I think of randomness as destiny fortifying itself in ways we can't see into. Destiny is a part of overall consciousness as I see it. Its a need and necessity, something that we are co-creators of in largely subconscious ways. To say it another way; randomness is the way destiny forms or dissolves - not very reasonable of course, but its how I feel about it.

[ape]

Hey, when you think about the concept of randomness, how do you think it operates? Like Quantum Physics is said to be random, but where does it come from?

Right now, I have 2 workable concepts of randomness:

1. Caused by absolutely nothing (just came into existence)

2. Caused by something (Like a computer that may randomly choose between A or B. The decision came from the computer)

I am kind of having some difficulty with this second concept.What you think about this?

Hi Hello,


Randomness or chance comes with or is caused by its opposite or contradiction: deliberation or non-randomness.


Time and chance happens to all men: Ecclesiates 9:10.


See Niels Bohr on complementarity:


"Now we've met a contradiction (or regress), we can make some progress."


Destiny is the simply the doom that is loved; doom is the destiny which is hated.

[Hello]

There is no such thing as physical randomness, as far as one knows. Einstein said that God does not play dice.Perhaps not all physicists agree with Einstein about randomness.

It's possible for a machine or a roulette wheel to generate random effects but these effects are random only because we don't know the causes of the effect.

I think most ordinary, not philosophical, conversations that include the word 'random' imply the latter meaning, although of course few people think carefully about what they mean.

That statement isn't really my point though (though I assumed so because randomness is accepted by the majority of scientists). I just wanted to see your opinions on randomness in general and its cause.

[Ambertider]

[/quote]

Destiny is the simply the doom that is loved; doom is the destiny which is hated.[/quote]

All destinies are the outcomes of conscious decisions, from the way a leaf turns on the ground to where a sun spins and thrives within a galaxy. The infinite profusion and variety of living things is what makes events look random; the sheer number of events at any given moment, from miniscule to mega, cannot but give the appearance of disorder and disorganisation.

[reflected_light]

I don't think that "these effects are random only because we don't know the causes of the effect" is a precise statement as far as a roulette wheel.
The causes are known but the variations in the forces of the spin cannot be calculated in time to predict an accurate result.
So in this sense randomness can be equal to our inability to process information quickly enough.

As far as destiny goes, the forces are unknown and your statement holds true.

[wanabe]

To the member named "Hello" in regards to his original post,

Randomness can be caused by something, it is possible. This something could also be random, or random can be intentionally random by choice, by choosing to choose randomly.

I believe that there has always been chance(random)/probability(order) neither more dominant than the other, they facilitate one another. This is to say that randomness can be its own cause.

[Simon says...]

Randomness is a concept with somewhat disparate meanings in several fields. Officially it means having no definite aim or purpose; not sent or guided in a particular direction; made, done, occurring, etc., without method or conscious choice; haphazard. This definition is a little vague however, it says no "definate" aim or purpose, in other words the aim or purpose is uncertain, this does not imply a lack of causality.

I think that either it is used to convey a sense of "causelessness", for example, one could ask, "why did the coin land on tails and not heads", and in an indeterministic universe the answer is "there is no "why", its just random". However, random can also be used to convey a sense of unpredictability, which is not quite the same thing. When I say something is random I don't mean to say that it happened for no reason, but that I don't know, and can't know, what that reason is.

[Hello]

Wanabe and Simon says, do you think that this sort of randomness can be from something unconscious? That is sort of the trouble that I have with this randomness. Random conscious decisions and determinations are fine so far as we already make choices all the time (whether caused or not). But what word can be used for unconscious "choices"? What can be said for the computer's random "choice" (First post)? Can this randomness even be unconscious?

[Martin Ekdahl]

Hey, when you think about the concept of randomness, how do you think it operates? Like Quantum Physics is said to be random, but where does it come from?

Right now, I have 2 workable concepts of randomness:

1. Caused by absolutely nothing (just came into existence)

2. Caused by something (Like a computer that may randomly choose between A or B. The decision came from the computer)

I am kind of having some difficulty with this second concept.What you think about this?

Aristotle talked about four causes behind everything: Material, formal, efficient and final.

The 'final cause', he ment, was that for the sake of which a thing existed or was done. This included both purposeful and instrumental actions and activities. The final cause or telos was the purpose or end that something was supposed to serve. It was also that from which and that to which the change was. This could also cover apparent random processes.

In other words; Randomness may be caused by nothing but serve a certain purpose, which in the Quantum physics may be illustrated by the particle that "borrows" energy to exist and then pays it back by disappearing. This is an appearantly random process but proves to be vital for the pure existence of our Universe. What causes this strange behavior? How can something that actually doesn't exist even make a loan, and first then really exist?

The scenario described above seems to be hard to explain, just taking the 'cause' in consideration. Because there is no actual cause behind the process to be seen. To explain the process we as well (or even rather) have to focus on the 'purpose' - or as Aristotle would put it, 'telos'. The particle borrows energy to exist. Exist is here the key word. It is so to say, the purpose of this "random" process.

[wanabe]

To the member named "Hello"

When you say "this sort of randomness" I'm assuming you are talking about your "second idea #2".If random is from something unconscious that makes it similar your idea "1", so yes.

"un-conscious choice" is a choice one doesn't put much thought into, it does not mean that they do not think about it at all, nor does it mean that it is being made by an un-conscious thing.

The word that can be given for unconscious choices in the way I think you mean it (ex: A rock rolling down a hill) is random.

The above rock rolling down a hill can said to be caused by the last thing that affected its inertia or something a kin to a(the) big bang; the "first" action that affects its inertia. When or how it does this is random.

Random/order has always existed, both are possible.

In the case of a computer there are glitches, so it can be random. A computer is not a completely closed environment no matter how hard one tries to make it so.

[Hello]

To the member named "Hello"

When you say "this sort of randomness" I'm assuming you are talking about your "second idea #2".If random is from something unconscious that makes it similar your idea "1", so yes.

"un-conscious choice" is a choice one doesn't put much thought into, it does not mean that they do not think about it at all, nor does it mean that it is being made by an un-conscious thing.

The word that can be given for unconscious choices in the way I think you mean it (ex: A rock rolling down a hill) is random.

The above rock rolling down a hill can said to be caused by the last thing that affected its inertia or something a kin to a(the) big bang; the "first" action that affects its inertia. When or how it does this is random.

Random/order has always existed, both are possible.

In the case of a computer there are glitches, so it can be random. A computer is not a completely closed environment no matter how hard one tries to make it so.

Ah, but in the example where the rock rolls down the hill, it is caused by something else that is random. Where does that specific random decision come from ultimately? It seems like that big bang can come from either nothing or something, or even some other third thing.

If it is by something, I am okay with the action being made by something conscious (Like a person who just chose to make the rock roll down the hill), which includes a person who isn't thinking much about the decision. But what about something unconscious that doesn't really choose?

It is possible to eliminate this unconscious randomness and only include conscious randomness (When randomness is caused by something, it can only be conscious), but that seems sort of empty.