What really matters?

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Douglaspocock
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Douglaspocock » May 30th, 2012, 6:08 pm

All Sagan's perspective convinces me is:

The stars are our birthright, and if we mean to amount to anything. We need to dominate all of the stars of the galaxy, all the galaxies of the universe, and all of the universes of the various dimensions, and all the various dimensions of whatever else may be out there. ;)

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Max1128
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Max1128 » June 12th, 2012, 8:23 pm

Belinda wrote:The more choice of materials they have for making their meanings the better their meanings are.
I definitely agree with this. The meaning one has depends on the meaning they give it. It's a very empiricist view, but I think it works best for such a diverse world. If you think the meaning you give life applies to the world, then try to impose it on others for that reason, that creates a lot of the conflict in society.

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Seremonia
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Seremonia » June 18th, 2012, 3:39 am

Yes, indeed we are small, very and very small. But we can be great, as great as what we can aware of. We may not be interested to a cat, a rat or even something. But when we are aware of qualities of those animals, then those animals are great for our purposes.

Judging from religion:

We live with the purpose that underlined by God. If we fulfill the purpose of our life as mentioned by God, we become valuable person. Believe in God existence is one of them to make us worthwhile in life, for us and for God.

Judging generally:

We live with purpose that underlined by ethics. If we fulfill the purpose of our life to reach fairness, we become valuable person.

What really matters? Where we put our awareness, determine why really matters.
I am free not because I have choices, but I am free because I rely on God with quality assured!

Ray_revolutionary
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Ray_revolutionary » March 1st, 2013, 8:25 pm

Why is it that the creation of this universe and the conditions for sustainability of life on earth are just perfect. There has to be more to life than just waiting for our untimely death. This is completely subjective, but I believe there is a god and earth is a test field to find out who is fit for being granted access into heaven. Why is it that our mind thinks about the moral values of life. If there was no god and he did not want us to behave in a nice manner, then why would we ever cooperate with individuals since the start of the human race. Everyone would just kill each other, but we have a creed that has been embedded in our minds by a higher power, resulting in us making wiser decisions.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by Rombomb » March 1st, 2013, 10:50 pm

Ray_revolutionary wrote:Why is it that the creation of this universe and the conditions for sustainability of life on earth are just perfect. There has to be more to life than just waiting for our untimely death. This is completely subjective, but I believe there is a god and earth is a test field to find out who is fit for being granted access into heaven. Why is it that our mind thinks about the moral values of life. If there was no god and he did not want us to behave in a nice manner, then why would we ever cooperate with individuals since the start of the human race. Everyone would just kill each other, but we have a creed that has been embedded in our minds by a higher power, resulting in us making wiser decisions.
What about the first humans? AFAIK, they had not yet been presented with religion or God or heaven or hell. So how did they make it?
We are all fallible -- anyone of us can be wrong about any one of our ideas. So shielding any one of my ideas from criticism means irrationally believing that I have the truth.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by Ray_revolutionary » March 2nd, 2013, 10:55 am

rombomb:
What about the first humans? AFAIK, they had not yet been presented with religion or God or heaven or hell. So how did they make it?
Well this is again completely subjective, but I have a theory. If a god exists, he has to be of a very sophisticated nature. Look at the world you live in, look at other human beings. Everything is so sophisticated, and the creator must be of the highest sophistication itself. Evolution is just a process of trial and error. The first human beings could not comprehend the idea of a god, so they evolved into smarter human beings who had an easier time grasping the idea of a god. So I would say god kept improving humans in ways to be able to grasp abstract ideas.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by Rombomb » March 2nd, 2013, 12:05 pm

What about the first humans? AFAIK, they had not yet been presented with religion or God or heaven or hell. So how did they make it?
Ray_revolutionary wrote: Well this is again completely subjective, but I have a theory.
What does completely subjective mean? Can you say that again without using that word?
Ray_revolutionary wrote: If a god exists, he has to be of a very sophisticated nature. Look at the world you live in, look at other human beings. Everything is so sophisticated, and the creator must be of the highest sophistication itself. Evolution is just a process of trial and error.
It is.
Ray_revolutionary wrote: The first human beings could not comprehend the idea of a god, so they evolved into smarter human beings who had an easier time grasping the idea of a god.
Evolved how? Do you mean genetic evolution? Or memetic evolution? Or what?
Ray_revolutionary wrote: So I would say god kept improving humans in ways to be able to grasp abstract ideas.
I'm so lost. Do you mean God helped cause humans do genetic evolution or memetic evolution or what?
We are all fallible -- anyone of us can be wrong about any one of our ideas. So shielding any one of my ideas from criticism means irrationally believing that I have the truth.

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EMTe
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Re: What really matters?

Post by EMTe » March 3rd, 2013, 8:08 pm

I've discovered this topic only because somebody posted in it, but the question is still important, partially because it was asked by admin, The Scott, who still believes philosophy of ancient Greeks is the answer.

Science is answer.

Why did you ask this question. What is your agenda. What is your past. What is your biology. Which fluids your body contains when you ask these questions.

Ancient Greeks, including your favourite Diogenes, were simply morons, inventing fables produced by their limited brains. They knew nothing of modern philosophy, psychology, physics, biology.

Philosophy is fun as "history of human thought", but it will never escape what I call the "zeitgeist trap". You think you're smart, but you're only link in the chain.

Sorry, Scott, you can dissolve this forum. Philosophy in 4679 will look completely different from your vision. 8)
The penultimate goal of the human is to howl like the wolf.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by Rombomb » March 3rd, 2013, 9:18 pm

EMTe wrote:I've discovered this topic only because somebody posted in it, but the question is still important, partially because it was asked by admin, The Scott, who still believes philosophy of ancient Greeks is the answer.

Science is answer.
The answer to which question exactly?
EMTe wrote: Why did you ask this question. What is your agenda. What is your past. What is your biology. Which fluids your body contains when you ask these questions.
Which question?
EMTe wrote: Ancient Greeks, including your favourite Diogenes, were simply morons, inventing fables produced by their limited brains. They knew nothing of modern philosophy, psychology, physics, biology.
I'm not familiar with Diogenes. As for the others, Xenophanes and some other pre-Socratics were big on fallibilism.

Science is founded on fallibilism.
EMTe wrote: Philosophy is fun as "history of human thought", but it will never escape what I call the "zeitgeist trap". You think you're smart, but you're only link in the chain.
What is this "zeitgeist trap"?
EMTe wrote: Sorry, Scott, you can dissolve this forum. Philosophy in 4679 will look completely different from your vision. 8)
If his vision is wrong, and if he changed his mind before the year 4679, then why should he dissolve this forum?
We are all fallible -- anyone of us can be wrong about any one of our ideas. So shielding any one of my ideas from criticism means irrationally believing that I have the truth.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by A_Seagull » March 3rd, 2013, 11:55 pm

Ray_revolutionary wrote:Why is it that the creation of this universe and the conditions for sustainability of life on earth are just perfect.

Because we have eveolved to fit adapively to this planet.


There has to be more to life than just waiting for our untimely death.

Of course there is! It is to procreate and to have fun in the process.

Why is it that our mind thinks about the moral values of life.

Because it gives us something to talk about.. like the weather.

If there was no god and he did not want us to behave in a nice manner, then why would we ever cooperate with individuals since the start of the human race.

Because it is good for our survival as social animals.


Everyone would just kill each other, but we have a creed that has been embedded in our minds by a higher power, resulting in us making wiser decisions.

Other social animals don't .. like ants, bees, chimpanzees, elephants, seagulls....etc etc... so why should human be any different?
The Pattern Paradigm - yer can't beat it!

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EMTe
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Re: What really matters?

Post by EMTe » March 4th, 2013, 6:04 pm

Rombomb wrote:The answer to which question exactly?
To all "philosophical" questions, which are simply questions asked by people who know nothing about nothing and try to replace knowledge with ignorance. For example the popular philosophical notion of "will". Biology has perfect answers for what is will and even for various understandings of will meant as will to power, will to survive etc. Yet philosphers still prefer to blah-blah about their "personal" views on will. Philosophy has much in common with poetry, religion and conspiracy theories - philosopher is part of the mob: "feels" something and decides to adopt this feeling as "truth about the world", even if more accurate answers have been already found by scientists.
Rombomb wrote:Science is founded on fallibilism.
Science is less fallibilist than philosophy.
Rombomb wrote:What is this "zeitgeist trap"?
Writing what is actually possible to write and allowed to write. Fighting for "answers" in a rapidly changing world which will look a bit or completely different in next century seems more like therapy than philosophy. (which is actually my understanding of philosophy, because sane people don't philosophize :wink:)
The penultimate goal of the human is to howl like the wolf.

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A_Seagull
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Re: What really matters?

Post by A_Seagull » March 4th, 2013, 6:43 pm

EMTe wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

To all "philosophical" questions, which are simply questions asked by people who know nothing about nothing and try to replace knowledge with ignorance. For example the popular philosophical notion of "will". Biology has perfect answers for what is will and even for various understandings of will meant as will to power, will to survive etc. Yet philosphers still prefer to blah-blah about their "personal" views on will. Philosophy has much in common with poetry, religion and conspiracy theories - philosopher is part of the mob: "feels" something and decides to adopt this feeling as "truth about the world", even if more accurate answers have been already found by scientists. (Nested quote removed.)

I agree with much of what you say. Philosophers use rational argument to justify their prejudicial assumptions. They writre long screeds of prose which they claim is a proof of their original proposition and somehow expect other people to wade through it line by line to point out their unjustified assumptions and illogical inferences and hidden generalisations.

What philosphers should be doing is looking for fundamental 'laws' that can explain much of what is the nature of man'
.[/color]

Science is less fallibilist than philosophy.

Science is based on facts and the desitre for knowledge about the natural world.
(Nested quote removed.)

Writing what is actually possible to write and allowed to write. Fighting for "answers" in a rapidly changing world which will look a bit or completely different in next century seems more like therapy than philosophy. (which is actually my understanding of philosophy, because sane people don't philosophize :wink:)
Thank you for the heads up on where I sit on the sane/insane spectrum. But I embrace my insanity in the way that someone (Kazantzakis) once said ' A man needs a little madness ........ or else..........he never dare cut the rope and be free'.
The Pattern Paradigm - yer can't beat it!

Rombomb
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Rombomb » March 4th, 2013, 6:48 pm

Rombomb wrote:The answer to which question exactly?
EMTe wrote: To all "philosophical" questions, which are simply questions asked by people who know nothing about nothing and try to replace knowledge with ignorance.
So the stuff I've said on this site is not knowledge? Then what is it?
EMTe wrote: For example the popular philosophical notion of "will". Biology has perfect answers for what is will and even for various understandings of will meant as will to power, will to survive etc.
No, science does not know what will is. Science is about scientific theories, which are theories that, in principle, can be ruled out by experiment. The theory of "will" cannot be ruled out by experiment, therefore it is not a scientific theory. This is Popper's line of demarcation.
EMTe wrote: Yet philosphers still prefer to blah-blah about their "personal" views on will. Philosophy has much in common with poetry, religion and conspiracy theories - philosopher is part of the mob: "feels" something and decides to adopt this feeling as "truth about the world", even if more accurate answers have been already found by scientists.
Determining truth by feeling is stupid. Critical Rationalism is against this it.
Rombomb wrote:Science is founded on fallibilism.
EMTe wrote: Science is less fallibilist than philosophy.
What does *less* fallibilist mean? How is that different than fallibilist?
Rombomb wrote:What is this "zeitgeist trap"?
EMTe wrote: Writing what is actually possible to write and allowed to write. Fighting for "answers" in a rapidly changing world which will look a bit or completely different in next century seems more like therapy than philosophy.
The same is true in science. Our scientific knowledge evolves just as our philosophical and moral knowledge evolves.
EMTe wrote: (which is actually my understanding of philosophy, because sane people don't philosophize :wink:)
So philosophers are insane?

Note that insanity is psuedoscience/scientism. See _The Myth of Mental Illness_, by Thomas Szasz.
We are all fallible -- anyone of us can be wrong about any one of our ideas. So shielding any one of my ideas from criticism means irrationally believing that I have the truth.

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Re: What really matters?

Post by EMTe » March 4th, 2013, 7:11 pm

Rombomb wrote:Science is about scientific theories
And philosophy is about philosophical theories.

Philosophers are not insane meant as "mad" or not aware of what is going around them, but they are certainly sociopaths to some degree. They can't accept their life as it is and they constantly dig for answers. I can't understand it, probably because I am sane. You live, but every second of your life you try to find the answer why you live, how to live or how to not live etc. At the end of your biological existence you find that you spent your whole life in a sort of loop. You talked about life, but you never lived.
Last edited by EMTe on March 4th, 2013, 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What really matters?

Post by Rombomb » March 4th, 2013, 7:16 pm

EMTe wrote: (Nested quote removed.)

And philosophy is about philosophical theories.
The scientific method is a philosophical theory.
We are all fallible -- anyone of us can be wrong about any one of our ideas. So shielding any one of my ideas from criticism means irrationally believing that I have the truth.

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