When did the universe begin?
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When did the universe begin?
Decided to check the internet for updates and I've found a link giving three theories (I don't know if I'd buy Barbour's timelessly universe, the first two theories have more meat to them).
So the question is which of the three theories appeal to you? Which do you see have the strongest arguments going for it?
The link: http://discovermagazine.com/2008/apr/25 ... vHsYZFOlzQ
- Spiral Out
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Re: When did the universe begin?
The universe has always been. There is no beginning and no end. It's just there.
A more apt question might be "When did the concept of "universe" begin?"
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Re: When did the universe begin?
When you say fundamental misunderstandings, what do you mean by that?
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Re: When did the universe begin?
I'm really not sure the link points to 'theories' but rather just ideas, possibilities speculated by scientists.
"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."
I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
"I'm really not sure the link points to 'theories' but rather just ideas, possibilities speculated by scientists."
Under what circumstances then would you consider these speculations to be theories?
Do you have a leading candidate proposal of your own that explains the origins of the universe?
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Re: When did the universe begin?
Scott wrote:I'm really not sure the link points to 'theories' but rather just ideas, possibilities speculated by scientists.
When one is a a set of hypotheses that have been scientifically tested and confirmed, it would then be a theory, assuming we are using the terms in the scientific context and the testing is scientific meeting scientific requirements like being repeatable. That all follows from definition, correct?Philosophy Explorer wrote:Under what circumstances then would you consider these speculations to be theories?
As stated in my previous post, I think the very concept is nonsense (see boxes example) since I am reading universe as something that entails spacetime.Scott wrote:Do you have a leading candidate proposal of your own that explains the origins of the universe?
"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."
I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
- Philosophy Explorer
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Re: When did the universe begin?
Sorry if I'm disagreeable, but National Geographic does call the Big Bang theory a theory and indicates why. So let me ask you again when you consider an idea to be a theory? Where do you and National Geographic differ?
Oh yes, here the link to National Geographic:
http://science.nationalgeographic.com/s ... e-article/
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Re: When did the universe begin?
"The mind is a wonderful servant but a terrible master."
I believe spiritual freedom (a.k.a. self-discipline) manifests as bravery, confidence, grace, honesty, love, and inner peace.
- Spiral Out
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Re: When did the universe begin?
What is fundamentally understood, where is the proof of such understanding and what is the universal reference that this proof can be verified against?Philosophy Explorer wrote:When you say fundamental misunderstandings, what do you mean by that?
How has the big bang been "tested and confirmed in a repeatable way"?Scott wrote:I think the Big Bang is a theory. … As I said, I believe I am using the standard definition of theory in science when I say it is a set of hypotheses that have been tested and confirmed in a repeatable way.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
"How has the big bang been "tested and confirmed in a repeatable way"?"
Well SO, the paths of all matter brings all matter together when time is reversed; furthermore there is the cosmic microwave radiation. The only thing is no one knows what triggered off the Big Bang.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
Does it? How is such a thing proven? Where is the universal reference that this is to be measured against?Philosophy Explorer wrote:the paths of all matter brings all matter together when time is reversed
There are two states of knowledge:
1. That which is apparent.
2. That which is actual.
We are only capable of the first.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
I'm guessing it's the Doppler shift. The scientists program their computers that would figure out the paths of the stars and galaxies (going backwards in time to a point (so they say, but I don't buy that part, more recently they're saying a small part of space)).Spiral Out wrote:Does it? How is such a thing proven? Where is the universal reference that this is to be measured against?Philosophy Explorer wrote:the paths of all matter brings all matter together when time is reversed
There are two states of knowledge:
1. That which is apparent.
2. That which is actual.
We are only capable of the first.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
Spiral Out wrote:The "big bang" is pure (and untenable) hypothesis based on fundamental misunderstandings and doesn't hold up to intense scrutiny.
The universe has always been. There is no beginning and no end. It's just there.
A more apt question might be "When did the concept of "universe" begin?"
The problem with that is entropy. If the universe has always existed, it should have experienced heat death trillions of years ago. It also runs into olbers paradox, in which the entire universe would be visible due to the finite speed of light and the time it takes to traverse the universe.The universe has always been
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Re: When did the universe begin?
We may have prematurely named the Universe, figuring it's the only one. It seems a reasonable chance from what we've learned that the "Universe" is actually a cluster of galactic clusters within a seemingly endless quantum vacuum dotted with "galactic cluster clusters" in much the same way as the "universe" is dotted with galactic clusters.
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Re: When did the universe begin?
1. If a particle (in this case a photon) is subject to the field called space time which it seems to be. (Gravitational lensing and and the "Harvard Tower Experiments) seem to show this.
2.If the field is collapsing into a massive object. Waves on a beach is a fair example. If things carried on a wave of space time would necessarily be accelerated or slowed (reversed acceleration) with the movements of space time.
3. Since waves and objects can be carried in a field. (sticks on a windswept flowing river would be a fair example) the accelerations due to gravity would result in a red shift over time and space.
4. If there were an infinite number of stars in the background of our observable universe (as predicted in an infinite and eternal universe) that would result in a universally observed Cosmic Microwave Background as the light emitted by those stars would be "Red Shifted" to the microwave length. However the "Doppler Effect" and perhaps others like our views of time, space dust and ripples (variations) in space time must also be considered.
5. If you make an Infinite, Evolving universe it may work without recourse to Singularities, Big Bangs or Creators. It does for me anyways.
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