Dolphin42 wrote:That is interesting. From what you said, it seems that there is disagreement within Christianity as to the exact status of Jesus Christ in relation to God.
Yes, there is the disagreement that you mention. You can also ascertain it for yourself by studying the history of early Christianity. This is a well-known subject for those who know some basic historical facts. Anyway, if one refers to the scriptures of the Christians, it is clear that Prophet Jesus Christ (pbuh) was a prophet and messenger of God, the Almighty and never claimed divinity for himself.
Dolphin42 wrote:But, in those strands of Christianity that do regard Jesus Christ as more than just a mortal man and as the son of God, it seems that this comment of yours still applies:
About the 'son of God' appellation, some Bible scholars say it is used metaphorically in the Bible, as I already said in my previous post. Many other prophets have been called 'son of God' in the Bible, for example Prophet Adam (see Luke 3:38), Prophet Israel/Jacob (see Exodus 4:22) and other prophets like Prophet Solomon (see Samuel 7:13-14) (peace be upon the prophets) and other people as well have been called 'sons of God' in the Bible. In Islam, we do NOT say that God, the Almighty has children and it is wrong to do that in Islam. Even if I am aware of the use of this appellation in biblical verses, I do not subscribe to such practices and I advise to anyone who is willing to listen, to disengage and stay away from such practices.
Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran:
- And they say "The Most Gracious has taken a son." Glorified is He! Nay, they are honored slaves. (Holy Quran 21:26)
And warn to those who say, "Allah has taken a son."
They do not have any knowledge about it, nor had their forefathers. Grave is the word that comes out of their mouth. Nothing they say except a lie. (Holy Quran 18:4-5)
Dolphin42 wrote:In which case, it seems odd to me that any good actions of those people are "annulled" - i.e. made invalid or worthless.
I said that all good actions are annuled with polytheism, but in fact it was an understatement. Because, polytheism, i.e. associating equals to God, the Almighty, not only annuls all good actions, but is the sin that if a person does not repent from it and correct himself/herself before he/she dies, then it is a sin that God, the Almighty will not forgive on Judgement Day.
Allah, the All-Knowing says in the Holy Quran,
- Indeed, Allah does not forgive that you associate partners with Him, but He forgives other than that for whom He wills. And whoever associates partners with Allah, then surely he has lost the way, straying far away. (Holy Quran 4:116)
Being upright to Allah and not associating partners with Him. And whoever associates partners with Allah, it is as though he has fallen from the sky and the birds have snatched him or the wind has blown him to a far off place. (Holy Quran 22:31)
And when hardship touches people, they call upon their Lord turning in repentance to Him. Then when He causes them to taste Mercy from Him, behold! A party of them associate partners with their Lord
So as to deny what We have granted them. Then enjoy yourselves but soon you will know. (Holy Quran 30: 33-34)
Associating partners with God, the Almighty, is the greatest and most serious sin in Islam. Next in the list of serious crimes comes the killing of innocent people.
Polytheism is not just a great sin in Islam, but also in Christianity and Judaism as well.
According to the Old Testament, Prophet Moses (peace be upon him) informed the Children of Israel in Deuteronomy chapter 6:
- 4. Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
5. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength. (Deuteronomy 6:4-5)
And Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him), according to Christian belief, restated this command word for word, as the most important command in Mark:
- 29. “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.
30. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ (Mark 12:29-30)
And there are many other verses throughout the Bible which prohibits polytheism. Here, the interested reader can investigate the matter for themselves.
Dolphin42 wrote:Seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater!
No doubt, associating partners with God, the Almighty truely results in a tremendous lost. But in the Abrahamic religion, we are taught that God, the Almighty is also the Most Merciful, the Perpetual Forgiver, the Most Compassionate. One of the names of God, the Almighty, in both the Hebrew language and the Arabic language is Ar-Rahman. 'Ar-Rahman' means the Most Compassionate or the Most Gracious. This is a type of mercy and love that is above human level.
So, back to our subject of discussion; God, the Almighty provides the solution to this sin that we were discussing, in chapter 5 verse 74 of the Holy Quran. This solution is known as sincere repentance.
Allah, the Most Merciful says:
- Certainly they have disbelieved those who say, "Indeed, Allah is the third of the three." And there is no god except One God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, a painful punishment will surely afflict those who disbelieve among them.
So will they not turn to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (Quran 5: 73-74)
As Allah, the Most Merciful says in chapter 5 verse 74 of the Holy Quran, if one sincerely repents to Him, from this great sin and do not return to this sin again, then He reminds us that He is the Most Merciful and the Oft-Forgiving.
And Allah, The Most Merciful also says in the Holy Quran:
- O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul (created at a command) from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist-it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a disposer of affairs. (Holy Quran 4:171)
On this, if God wills, I will end the discussion on this subject. And let my Christian brothers and sisters in humanity, after they have studied and pondered on the Scriptures, to decide for themselves what they think is best for themselves in the light of the Scriptural evidences. True believers in God, the Almighty are humble people, and they do not hesitate to turn in repentance to their Creator, the Most Merciful, when they have done wrong to themselves. I made mistakes too in the past (well, I was raised in tinitarian ideology as well!), and there is no doubt that God, the Almighty is the Most Merciful.
Let's get back to an earlier post that you addressed to me. You made some interesting statements in post #303 , that I would like you to clarify for me. Can you clarify, the following statement?
Dolphin42 wrote:The Burgess Shale, being possibly the most famous formation in the western world, seems like a good example to consider. It is allegedly about 500 million years old.
How was the Burgess Shale dated to be about 500 million years of age? And how reliable is this dating method according to science itself?
And a similar question which I will also ask to Andrian as one of the links he/she posted made the following statements:
-----ARA-VP-6/500, "Ardi", Ardipithecus ramidus
Discovered by a team led by Tim White in 1994 at Aramis in Ethiopia (White et al. 2009; Gibbons 2009). Its age is about 4.4 million years. Ardi is a spectacularly complete fossil. About 45% of her skeleton was found, including most of the skull, pelvis, hands and feet, and many limb bones. She was about 120 cm (3'11") tall and weighed about 50 kg (110 lbs).
KP 271, "Kanapoi Hominid", Australopithecus anamensis
Discovered by Bryan Patterson in 1965 at Kanapoi in Kenya (Patterson and Howells 1967). This is a lower left humerus which is about 4.0 million years old. -----
So how were these fossils dated? And how reliable is this method according to science itself?
Note: respecfully remark that these questions are specific questions, and as I replied to all your questions by providing references, it will not be too much to ask for the same from your part. If you do not know, then just say so, and I will inform you, if God wills.